Let’s delve into the world of intellectual property and brand protection with a seasoned expert, Lisa Win from Win Trademarks. Join us as we explore the crucial nuances of trademarks, the pitfalls entrepreneurs might encounter, and the strategic insights to safeguard your brand. Uncover the lesser-known aspects of intellectual property and gain valuable advice from Lisa, as we navigate the complexities of building and preserving your brand in the ever-evolving business landscape.
In today’s episode you’ll learn:
- The vital role of trademarks in brand protection and avoiding legal issues.
- Real-life stories highlighting the intellectual property challenges entrepreneurs often face.
- Strategic insights into the trademarking process and its value as a business investment.
- Overlooked aspects of brand protection, including impacts on labels, packaging, and online presence.
- Dispelling common misconceptions about trademarks and navigating intellectual property complexities.
- Proactive tips for monitoring and safeguarding your brand against potential infringements.
- The importance of professional expertise in ensuring a smooth trademark application process.
- Avoiding costly rebranding and legal disputes through a proactive intellectual property approach.
- Lisa Win’s habits for staying focused and organised in the world of trademarks.
- Insights into trademarking timelines, costs, and common business challenges.
Links from the show:
- Bright Red Marketing Episode 56
- Win Trade Marks Website and Facebook Page
- Book Recommendation: The Big Leap by Gay Hendricks
Transcript
Lisa Win: The goal of getting a trademark is to be protecting your business. It’s not just to get a trademark registered. There are a lot of people with registered trademarks that really aren’t protecting them at all
Dahna Borg: Hi, and welcome to the bright minds of e-commerce podcast. I’m Dahna founder of bright red marketing, and after helping so many businesses in the e-commerce space over the years, I wanted to bring you the best advice Australian experts in e-commerce and e-commerce store owners had to offer. If you want relatable stories and actionable advice and the latest Facebook advertising strategies, you’re in the right place. so let’s get into today’s episode
today. We’re here with Lisa from Win Trade Marks. Welcome Lisa.
Lisa Win: Hi, Dahna. Thank you so much for having
Dahna Borg: me. So good to have you. So tell us a little bit about your business and how you got started.
Lisa Win: Well, I’m a trademark attorney and that means that I can do trademarks in Australia and New Zealand.
And I got started with that. Gosh. about seven, seven years ago, I think now. So I’ve been doing that for a while, but I was actually a criminal lawyer for a while before doing that. And when I was on maternity leave, I I’m one of those people, like probably a lot of your listeners that Just always knew they wanted to run a business.
So that was me. But I had, you know, for years and years had no clue what on earth I was going to do. So, when I had little babies, I’m maternity leave. The only thing I could think of was to open a toy shop, so I did that, and I did that for a few years and I did eventually sell that toy shop, but I found that as part of that, I met lots of wonderful businesswomen, and I just loved the whole culture, You know, the whole business thing.
And I did find that questions about trademarks and IP just came up a lot. And I found myself always sort of answering those questions, even though it wasn’t at that time, wasn’t my area of expertise, but I was answering all those questions. So when I sold my toy store, I did some more training and became a trademark attorney.
Dahna Borg: Amazing.
So I feel like everyone sort of knows what a trademark is, but I don’t think unless you’ve got one, you really know what it is. What is a trademark?
Lisa Win: So a trademark when you register a trademark, it’s all about protecting your brand. And there is quite a bit of confusion about that. Lots of people think I can trademark their product or can trademark their way of doing something.
But that’s not really what trademarks are about. They’re really about protecting your brand. So the legal terminology talks about things like a trademark is something that is a badge of origin or it indicates the source of your goods or services. Basically, it’s about a trademark can be anything that helps your customers to identify your business and to buy your products or services rather than somebody else’s.
So, the trademark applications that I do for people are mostly for their business names is number one, because normally that is the most important part of a business’s brand. It’s the thing that, you know, if somebody wants to buy your product, they’re going to look up your business name.
That’s the most important main one. But we also do logos, sometimes taglines, sometimes product names sometimes So there’s quite a lot of different things that you can trademark.
Dahna Borg: Yeah. Amazing.
When I’ve got so many questions before we get into that, I know that people get confused with trademarks, copyright and patents.
Trademark is the thing that protects the naming part. Is that right?
Lisa Win: Yeah. So it protects your brand. So that is things like your name, but lots of people do trademarks for their logos as well. Sometimes product businesses might do trademarks for their like their labels on their.
Packaging and things like that and, and big brands will do things like Coca Cola has got a trademark for the shape of their bottle, because, you know, people recognize that shape. You don’t need to say the Coca Cola name on it to know that that’s a Coca Cola bottle. It’s a, it is part of their brand.
Dahna Borg: Is that how
like Cadbury have, is that a trademark where Cadbury have trademarked that particular color purple?
Lisa Win: Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. And because when that, you know, I love Cadbury chocolate. So when I go down the confectionary aisle, I can spot the purple section and I know that’s where I’m going to get my chocolate.
And so that purple has become an important part of their brand. And so that’s how they’ve been able to acquire a trademark for that, those sorts of trademarks are much harder to get for small businesses, but big businesses can get them. So then you’ve got patents, patents and design registrations are two different kinds of IP intellectual property that are about protecting products.
So, a design registration is about protecting the way that the product looks. you’ve designed a chair and it looks a particular way, you might be able to get a design registration to protect the particular way that it looks. That it looks and they’ll be very specific. It might be like the look of the armrests and that might be what you’re protecting with the design and patents also protect products, but they are more about.
Inventions, and they’re more about protecting the way that something works. So if you’ve again using the chair example, if you’ve invented a new kind of folding chair and the folding mechanism is brand new and it’s never been done before, you might be able to protect that folding mechanism with a patent.
So in that kind of situation. Somebody might get a patent for the folding mechanism and a design registration to cover the look of the chair. And then they might get a trademark to cover the name of the chair. So three different kinds of protection that are protecting different things.
Dahna Borg: Yeah. So how does the business know when you need a trademark? Like I imagine from what you’ve just said, if your product is brand new, revolutionary, never been done before, almost bordering like a new invention, you would kind of need all three from day one to protect yourself. But then for like a more generic business and not generic in that it’s not unique and special, but you know, maybe you just sell jeans or dresses or something.
How, how do you know when you need the trademarks? Cause obviously it’s not a cheap process. It’s not exorbitant, but it’s not a cheap process. How do you sort of work out when is a good time to get that trademark?
Lisa Win: Yeah. So with patents and designs, like if you’re protecting a product, there are real important time factors that you have to consider if you put your product out in the world and start selling it, that can um, mean that it’s too light to protect.
There’s some changes happening with the laws around this now, and there’s a little bit of wiggle room with designs, but because designs and patents have to be new, which means it can’t be out there in the world already. once you put something out there, then it’s no longer new.
And so you can’t get that protection anymore. So, if you’re thinking about protecting your product, getting advice early is really important because once you start putting things up on social media and stuff like that, you can find just, you’ve kind of shot yourself in the foot a little bit.
Dahna Borg: Yeah.
Lisa Win: And people do get caught out for that, but it is, like it’s a tricky area so it’s good to get some advice and as I said it is changing some of the laws around that. So if you’re wanting to protect your product in that way you’re best off speaking to a patent attorney. Patent attorneys specialize in that sort of product protection side of things.
And so they will usually do both patents and designs. So they’re the people to speak to for that. When it comes to timing for your trademarks, sort of, You know, you can leave it if you want, like there’s sort of nothing that makes you have to do it at a certain time. It’s more of a personal decision around when is the right time for you.
I think, you know, in an ideal world where none of us need to think about our budget, we would just do it all at the start. And this is what the big companies do every time they’re thinking about releasing any kind of. New brand for anything, they will get it protected, lodge their applications early and they will do things like get the name, get separate trademark applications for the three different versions of their logos.
And, you know, they’ll do the whole shebang right at the start.
Dahna Borg: When I went to get my trademarks recently one of the biggest marketing agencies in the country had trademarked a name that was too similar to mine.
Thankfully it expired three months after I inquired. And it just lapsed. But then never used it. Like never didn’t even have a little holding landing page or anything, just never used it. I wish I did that one sooner, but. We, we got it. So we’re all sorted.
Lisa Win: Well, it sounds like you were very lucky because you might still have been able to get your trademark, even if their trademark had still stayed on there, but it would have been harder for you
Dahna Borg: I would have had to pay the extra to fight it because it wasn’t as clean.
Now it’s clean. So it’s all good.
Lisa Win: Exactly. Yeah. So timing wise, there’s lots of things that I tell people to think about like how much you investing in your brand and how much would it cost you if the worst case scenario happened and you had to change your business name and redo all your branding, what is that going to cost you?
So some people I speak to, they will, say well, I’ve paid a few thousand dollars for my branding and then I’ve paid thousands of dollars for a website. Plus I’ve got packaging, which has cost thousands of dollars. And so if I had to go change all of that, you know, It’s going to add up to a lot.
Dahna Borg: Yeah.
Lisa Win: So therefore protecting the business name at the very least and making sure you’re not going to have to rebrand everything. You know, that, that would be worth it in that situation because The investment already has been so much that the trademark, the cost of that is, is going to be worth it.
Dahna Borg: I think that’s the part people forget about too. Like it’s not just the branding and the new website, it’s all of your product labels, your packaging, like where else is your brand that if someone went, you can’t use that anymore. You would have to change that. And it’s a lot of places for, especially for e commerce businesses.
Like my business is like, Oh, it’s in two places. Like it would be soul destroying, but it’s protected now. But for a product based business, like if you’ve got it on all of your stock, that’s stock you can’t use anymore.
Lisa Win: I have had clients in that situation where they’ve had to. Bin their products basically all there.
Dahna Borg: Terrifying.
Lisa Win: Yeah. Yeah. And they were a reasonably sized business as well. Like it was not a little bit of product. It was a lot. So. You know, if you’re adding up all of that sort of thing, it does make people think, well, maybe I’ll bring the, the trademarking process a little bit earlier in their business than what they might do if they were a business, like a service business or a very DIY type business where they’ve done their own branding, built their own website and, you know, they’ll just, if worst case happens, I’ll just
Dahna Borg: Yeah.
Lisa Win: Yeah. So quite, quite a personal sort of decision. I have worked with people who are quite small businesses, service businesses. It’s not really going to cost them that much if they have to change it. But they’ve said to me. I’m so emotionally connected to this name or this brand that they would be devastated if they had to change it.
So, you know, that can be enough to make it worth it as well.
Dahna Borg: Yeah, definitely. I mean, for me, I realized very quickly. Cause I like some of your clients heard stories of people losing their businesses and having to change everything. And I was like, like, everyone knows me as bright red marketing. Like I have red hair.
It’s a thing. Like I, what else would I call my business? Like, I wouldn’t have a clue. So for me, it became a point of just, okay, you’ve been in business for a very long time. Let’s do this. Are there any businesses that you kind of touched on a couple where it’s like, Oh, maybe not, or like, leave it.
But are there any businesses that don’t really need trademarks or it’s not such a concern for them?
Lisa Win: Well, I think, you know, you look back in time a little bit, if you had a toy store in Melbourne and a toy store in Sydney and there was no online stuff at all if they’ve both got the same name.
It’s not really going to be an issue because no one’s going to accidentally go into the Sydney store instead of the Melbourne store. Like it’s not a real problem.
Dahna Borg: I see where you’re going with this.
Lisa Win: Yeah. So if you’re a completely offline kind of business, you’re not worried about other businesses. With the same name being on Facebook and Instagram and, you know, potentially being dodgy or confusing your customers or, or if you’ve got a business where you know, it’s completely word of mouth and referral and you’re not really doing any marketing or anything like that.
It’s less of a thing. There are a lot of people I work with who run their whole business under their personal name. If I was just Lisa Win and that’s it you can protect a name like that. There’s you know, Jenny Craig and things like that.
But the risk of somebody with the exact same name having the same kind of business is so low that it’s, you know, probably not going to be worth it.
Dahna Borg: Yeah.
Lisa Win: But where I have worked with those kinds of people is when they’ve released like a signature product or service.
That is, you know, this, they come to me and say, this is my main thing. This is my main money. And they’d like to protect the name of that. So that does sometimes come up.
Dahna Borg: Yeah. I suppose there’s another thing that. At least it, delayed my process. Cause I thought it was gonna be much more expensive than it was, was just the costs surrounding it.
What help with your facebook and instagram ads remember you can always book in a free strategy session@brightredmarketing.com.edu forward slash free dash strategy dash session we’ll run through all of your ads see what’s working and what’s not and no sales pitch i promise so let’s get back to today’s episode.
Obviously how long is a piece of string, but like, what’s that process sort of start at how expensive can it get? Cause I feel like it was much less than I was expecting it to be.
Lisa Win: Yeah, I actually hear that quite a lot from people when they come to me that they’re sort of nervous about the whole thing.
And then when they hear the phase of like. Oh, okay. That’s not, not so bad. I think, you know, patents are a lot more expensive than trademarks. So that is something to consider. Designs are more around the price range of, of trademarks. So when when you’re getting a trademark, One of the things that it gives you is exclusive rights to use, so say we’re talking about a business name, exclusive rights to use that name for whichever products or services are listed on the trademark.
And so the fees are actually Related to that list of products and services that are on your trademark. So the more different kinds of products and services you want to get those exclusive rights for, then the more your trademark is going to cost you. A big part of the fees are government fees that get paid to IP Australia.
So that’s part of it. If you. Did your own trademark application. Did it direct through IP Australia and you just have one kind of product, then fees are going to start at the 250 mark to do a similar application like that through someone like me, like my fees are around the 1, 300 for that.
And what you’re getting for that is. Lots of searches and checks and things before the application is lodged. Making sure that if issues are going to come up, that we actually have a strategy for that. And because if you lodge an application might be Australia say no, like you’re limited with what you can do.
You can’t just change the application and. You have to just start again. So, by working with a professional, you’re getting a bit more advice around the best strategy for it. And also the drafting of it will be done usually better if you’re working with a professional.
Dahna Borg: Yeah, and I think it’s just one of those things that, like, you don’t want to get something wrong. Like, the categories and things, they’re not As straightforward as I would have thought they would have been. And it was a little bit confusing. So I was very glad I paid someone to do mine because I would have hated to get that wrong. And then obviously I had dramas with mine. And I would have had no idea how to handle that.
Lisa Win: Yeah. Yeah. So I think too that, it’s good to remember the goal. The goal of getting a trademark is to be protecting your business. It’s not just to get a trademark registered. There There are a lot of people with registered trademarks that are pretty crap, to put it nicely that really aren’t protecting them at all And those people won’t realize that until they need to enforce their trademark or until somebody else goes and gets trademark for something that is similar that, wouldn’t have gone through if their trademark had done right the first time.
Dahna Borg: What makes a crap trademark? Like what did they do wrong? I’m really curious.
Lisa Win: Oh gosh, there are lots of things that can go wrong with a trademark application. One of the big ones that catches people off guard is that if you get the ownership of the trademark application wrong, initially, that can mean that the whole trademark is unenforceable, even if the trademark goes through to registration.
It still is basically useless. so the person lodging the application won’t know that. No one is going to tell them that they got it wrong. IP Australia don’t tell you. If you get it wrong.
Dahna Borg: It’s not their job.
Lisa Win: It’s not their job. No. So, so that’s one of the big ones and we’re finding that lots of businesses are trying to enforce their trademark applications and instead they’re just being told, nah, we’re going to apply to remove your trademark from the register altogether because you messed up the ownership part of it. So that’s, that’s a big one.
Dahna Borg: That’s scary. How do you check that? Or you just need someone like you to know that it’s wrong.
Lisa Win: It’s about knowing like, I guess it gets more complicated, the more complicated the business structure of the business goes, if you’re a sole trader, you can’t really mess it up.
Well, I mean, I guess you could but if you’ve got if you’ve got multiple companies or companies and trusts and things like that, then it gets easier to mess it up. The big issue is whether the trademark ownership should be the The company or the director of the company.
That’s the big mistake that people often make. Other things that can go wrong is the drafting of the application. So when they’re listing the goods and services a lot of people sort of think that, oh, if I’ve selected some things in this category, then I’m covered for the whole category.
And that’s not how it works. And I think people get that impression because they think, well, I’ve paid for that category. So therefore I’m covered for the whole category. But it really is important to get the actual list of the products and services. That’s correct. And even things like whether there’s a comma or a semi colon in there can make a difference to how it’s interpreted and to what’s covered.
So I’ve had arguments with, you know, the examiners at IP Australia about what, what is covered by a trademark and it’s come down to, well, that’s comma, not a semi colon. Therefore, it does, it does get into
Dahna Borg: the moral of the story, get an expert because Commas and semicolons make a difference and I can never tell the difference between them. Right. That’s, that’s fun. Cool. Obviously sometimes people go after trademarks because They’re just trying to be prepared and organized. And sometimes it’s because they hear horror stories. And we’ve talked about people having to, you know, throw out stock and things. What actually happens for that to be the end result?
Like what’s, what’s happening when someone says, I have to now rebrand my entire business and throw my stock out. Like, why does that happen? And. Obviously getting a trademark is how people can avoid that.
Lisa Win: Yeah. So how it happens is that a lot of people, when they start a new business, they know that they have to go to ASIC and they have to register their business name.
And I do get a bit cranky with ASIC because I think their website is a little bit misleading. It talks about things like business name availability. And people go and check their business name availability. They, oh, it’s available. Yay. Hooray. They register their business name and they think that they’re safe.
They think that they’re allowed to use that name and that they’re not going to get in trouble. Part of that process with ASIC is that you have to tick a box to say that you’ve checked trademarks. So everybody with a registered business name has ticked that box to say that they’ve checked trademarks, but I know that a lot of people don’t do that.
Or even if they are checking, they’re not really sure what they’re looking for or what they’re checking. So a lot of people get caught out or may have. got their business, they’ve registered their business name, they think that they’re safe. And then they get a nasty letter from a trademark owner saying, Hey, you’re infringing my trademark.
You need to stop using that business name within 14 days. You need to, you know, get rid of all your stock. You need to do this, this, this, shut down your social media pages. website, everything. And that is, really scary. People get that letter. They are, you know, they’re legal letters, so they’re meant to scare you.
That is the point. And sometimes people will receive those letters, go get some legal advice and find out well actually they are in a spot of bother there. They are using a name that’s been trademarked or something that’s too similar to a name that’s been trademarked. And normally you can negotiate.
With the timeline, like, the letters will usually say 14 days, but you could go back and say, look, I acknowledge I’ve done the wrong thing here and I will be changing, but can I have some more time? I’ll do it in two months or three months or something. Even with that extra time though, it’s pretty devastating for businesses.
Dahna Borg: Very expensive, especially in the e commerce space.
Lisa Win: Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, like I said, I’ve had businesses in that situation. And it’s, yeah, it’s not fun. No, if you’ve got a trademark though, and you’re, you’ve seen somebody else who you think is infringing, it’s also good to get advice at that point in time as well, because I’ve also seen the other side of it, where trademark owners have gone and got a cease and desist letter template off the internet and sent it off to people saying you’re infringing my trademark, and they’ve sort of not really understood whether what their trademark protection is giving them and how far it goes and sometimes they sort of step over the line a little bit with demands that You know, not really That really have the legal basis for that.
Dahna Borg: Yeah, I am on that note. I know that one of the important things when you get your trademark is that you’re supposed to keep an eye on whether other people are infringing on your trademark. Do you sort of have any tips on how to actually do that? Cause now that everyone’s listened to this episode, everyone’s going to go and get trademarked.
How do you then protect that?
Lisa Win: Yeah. So the reason you want to do that is because if you let other people use similar names Then over time, they’re going to also build up their brand in those names, and they may eventually be able to get trademarks themselves, even though your trademark is already there, so they could provide evidence to show that what they’re showing is called honest concurrent use.
So they were honestly using it, it was over the same timeframe as. the trademark, but there haven’t been any problems, basically, is what they argue, and so then they can get a trademark themselves. So that, that can happen. If you don’t want that to happen, then you need to sort of nip it in the bud as early as you can.
Dahna Borg: Did you just like Google businesses that sound like you every couple of months? Like, how do you actually
Lisa Win: Yeah, I’d be checking Google, checking social media, social media pages will pop up pretty early on in, in a new business.
Dahna Borg: Yeah.
Lisa Win: You do have to think about though that if you’ve got a trademark in Australia, it’s giving you exclusive rights in Australia. And so if somebody starts a new Facebook page and they’re in the US, your trademark doesn’t stop them from doing that. So, Yeah, I’d just be Googling and keeping an eye on things. You can also check the actual trademark register itself to see if people are lodging new applications for trademarks.
Part of the trademarking process, so it’s a long process, it takes a minimum of seven and a half months to go through the process.
Dahna Borg: That was the part that surprised me the most, is just how long it takes.
Lisa Win: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then the last two months of the process is called the opposition period. where other people can come and oppose the trademark.
So if you’re keeping an eye on the trademarks register, even if you look every three months or six months, even probably three months, it’s probably safer just to see similar names are being applied for. If a very similar name is being applied for, and it covers similar products or services, then it’s unlikely that the application will go through at least not smoothly anyway.
So it’ll be sitting on there as pending for a longer period of time. But sometimes IP Australia makes some weird decisions and they will let marks go through that you think, oh gosh, that seems a bit too close and they’ll let it through. And so you may want to then be opposing. that mark to stop it from going through.
It’s a big thing to oppose someone’s mark. But often just getting the process started can be enough for the business to go, Oh, okay. I’m just going to give up on that.
Dahna Borg: I’ll pick another name. Thank you.
Lisa Win: Yes, I don’t want any part of a big legal fight. I give up. And so, so keeping an eye on it and knowing that options there is, is good.
Dahna Borg: Yeah. Wonderful.
Before we wrap up, do you think there’s anything that we’ve missed that is important to share?
Lisa Win: I
think a couple of things, I think it’s probably good for people to know that about 30 percent of all trademark applications don’t go through. So it’s not like registering your business name, where you just put in a computer, and it’s done. It is a much more involved process where an examiner sits down and they go through it all and there’s quite a few legal tests that they have to think about. And so, Lots of applications don’t go through. So that’s something just to sort of be aware of because the actual process of lodging the application is super easy. My 10 year old, you know, get in there, lodge an application. And I think a lot of people think that that’s all there is to it.
Dahna Borg: Yeah.
Lisa Win: You know, but there is a lot more that happens sort of behind the scenes. So, I think that’s a good thing to know. And. Another good thing to know is that you can’t trademark names or phrases or words that are descriptive of what your product or service is.
So, if your shop is called the toy shop, you’re not going to be able to get a trademark for the phrase the toy shop because, the trademark gives you exclusive rights to use that phrase, you know, it wouldn’t be fair. For all the other toy shops in Australia to not be able to say that they are a toy shop.
Dahna Borg: Yeah, it’s like that Ugg boots debacle.
Lisa Win: Yes, that’s a really good example. Ugg boot or Ugg is a generic word in Australia, it’s descriptive. There’s a million businesses that sell UGG boots and they’re all allowed to call them UGG boots and that’s all fine. But a big company has trademarked, a big American company has trademarked the word UGG in almost every other country in the world because in those countries It’s not.
It doesn’t mean anything at all. It’s a quite a distinctive word. And so that American company has the exclusive rights to use the word UGG in all those other countries. And where it’s becoming a bit of a problem is Australian businesses are wanting to sell their boots online and sell them to people in those other countries, but they’re getting sued for trademark infringement when they do that.
Dahna Borg: So it’s just gut wrenching for every Australian business because it’s like you would never think to, to trademark that because it’s in Australia, you wouldn’t be able to, it’d be like trying to trademark the toy shop.
Lisa Win: Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. So I think it is good to just be aware that because a lot of people waste their money on trademark applications that really had no hope of going through.
And again, sometimes there are ways around it. If you’ve built up a brand over, over years, you may eventually be able to get the trademark for it. But it’s just makes it a bit more complicated.
Dahna Borg: Yeah, of course. Or just get to the last couple of questions we ask everyone. Do you have any strategies or habits that you follow each day to help you stay on track in business?
Lisa Win: Oh, I like to have my everyday my to do list. I always do a like a short to do list that only has three things on it. I’m a list person I have 100 lists with all my different things, and they all like everything is on those lists because I can’t fit anything in my brain anymore.
So it all has to be on the list. And I find that it’s too overwhelming and I never get anything done if I just pull out my list with 30 things on it. So, I find that just by doing, putting three things on there, that’s, that keeps me focused on that. And sometimes if I’m feeling really overwhelmed, I’ll just have one thing on my to do list.
And I know that I will be happy and feel accomplished that I’ve actually done that one thing. Because usually it’s a thing that I’ve been putting off for a while.
Dahna Borg: Yeah, I know those things.
Do you have a favorite business book?
Lisa Win: Oh, golly gosh, I read a lot of business books. Mostly because I am trash at marketing.
And so I do read a lot of them., maybe. Big Leap.
Dahna Borg: Yeah, I know the one you’re talking about
Lisa Win: Talking about focusing on your zone of genius and
I think that, book though is one that just made me look at business differently when I read it.
Dahna Borg: Do you have a favorite podcast?
Lisa Win: I listen to a lot of true crime stuff.
Dahna Borg: So does everyone else. I don’t
know what it is about business women in Australia, but everyone likes the true crime
Lisa Win: stuff. Yeah. And I get really fascinated with the ones where there’s been a couple lately where they’ve actually walked through.
Criminal trials, and this is probably because of my background in criminal law, but they’re obviously doing very well. These podcasts, there’s lots of people interested in it, but I do like when they really get into the nitty gritty of the evidence. Yeah. I just like that level of detail.
Dahna Borg: And if anyone wants to now go get their trademarks sorted and wants to get in contact with you, what’s the best place for them to do that?
Lisa Win: So I’m at Win Trademarks so wintrademarks. com. au or on Facebook’s probably the easiest place to find me. I’m an old lady, so I’m pretty hopeless at Instagram. And. You can book an appointment with me on my website if you want to have a bit of a chat. And I also have a a downloadable thing on my homepage there that sort of looks at some of the things that you might want to consider if you’re not sure. If you need a trademark or if it’s the right time to get a trademark.
Dahna Borg: Yeah. Amazing. Well, thank you so much for sharing so much with us. I think if people haven’t got trademarks after this episode, they will be seriously investigating that. So thank you for joining us.
Lisa Win: All right. Thanks so much for having me.
Dahna Borg: Thanks for listening to the bright minds of e-commerce podcast. As always you’ll find the show notes@brightredmarketing.com.edu forward slash episode 56. thanks for listening.
