In today’s episode you’ll learn:
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The biggest thing Yuki wishes she’d done differently to launch the Pocket Prints app
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Her number one marketing strategy for driving sales, and her top tips to make this strategy work for you
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When she decided the right time to leap from full-time work to full time in the business and how that experience was for her
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Why shipping is so important for an eCommerce business and how she manages this when planning new products.
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How she solved feeling lonely and disconnected when running her own business
Where to find Yuki, the books and podcasts she mentions on the show:
Where to find Yuki
https://www.pocketprints.com.au/
Books Yuki Recommended
Profit First – Mike Michalowicz
Podcasts Yuki Recommended
Transcript:
Dahna Borg:
Hi and welcome to the bright minds of eCommerce podcast. I’m Dahna, founder of Bright Red Marketing, your e-commerce advertising specialists. We focus primarily on Facebook and Instagram ads, driving direct return on investment only for eCommerce stores. I started this podcast to share the inner workings of the eCommerce world, share success stories as well as advice from experts. So whether you’re thinking of starting your first e-com store or you’re ready to scale to $500,000 months, this podcast is for you. So let’s get started. Welcome to Episode One
Dahna Borg:
Hello and welcome to the bright minds of e-commerce podcast. Today we are here with Yuki. Yuki is the founder of an eCommerce tech based business. Five years ago she made a career leap from an arts administration job to building a website and app from the ground up. Pocket prints is a Melbourne based Instagram printing business, helping people free the hundreds of photos taken and stored on devices. The first year she launched the business from her home whilst working full time. She learned almost everything on the go, lots of mistakes and in that time she’s almost found the most successful marketing activities that are the drivers for app downloads and orders. Welcome Yuki.
Yuki Taylor:
Thank you Dahna. Thanks for reaching out. I’m really pleased and excited to talk to you.
Dahna Borg:
It’s so good to have you. So tell us a little bit about how the idea for pocket prints came to be.
Yuki Taylor:
I guess when, as you mentioned in the intro that I was working full time and I had just had babies. It was a really hard juggle, but at the time I was helping my friends and actually specifically mothers group friends print their photos. My husband’s a photographer and printer and has spent his whole career printing photos and I was just really quick and savvy so we were doing it by text messages and posting photos. So just knew that there was definitely a quicker way to do this. Then we just thought, let’s explore an app and at the time we have somebody in our family that knows a lot about this stuff and he said, yeah, definitely. There’s definitely opportunities, especially because Instagram was so was just starting but was so big. Then and my friends and I were printing hundreds of photos. Anyway. I even went to the Kmart printing kiosk with a girlfriend and that was really hard and dragging kids and and the result wasn’t always that great. So I just went we can do this. That was the seed.
Dahna Borg:
Yeah. So how did you take that seed to the development of the app and those sorts of things?
Yuki Taylor:
Yeah, I have to say when we first developed we just didn’t know what we were doing. I really didn’t know what I was doing. I just thought I would draw some sort of pictures of some screens and I didn’t even know what to call them. Mock ups at the time. I just called them mockups and I think I just thought about, well if I’m doing it on my phone. Anyway, friends are texting me photos and just EFTing some money to us and I’m posting them, obviously an app can do this. So I just drew what that looks like and then just Googled a bit and worked out, you know, they’re called wire frames and yeah. And then a friend of mine, a family friend helped us so much to build out what it should look like and then did the development connected us with developers and helped us build what we thought we needed.
Dahna Borg:
Yeah. How did you find that app development process? Big learning curve? I imagine.
Yuki Taylor:
We were the biggest, it’s actually been the biggest learning curve of the business. I actually just thought I would have a printing business.
Yuki Taylor:
As it turns out, you know, I really have a tech business, so I now pay a few developers full time to continue to develop. I have rebuilt the app from the ground up since our first iteration and that was really soul destroying. But once I learned that we built the first app probably the wrong way. Yeah. We had to make a decision if we were going to scale at all, we had to start again. So we built the backend first this time and decided what we needed from a production point of view and a dispatch point of view and built a brand new backend and then worried about the front stuff. So, the development process had been really, really tough at times, but I just learned so much about not coding, but you know how that works and how that framework, that back end was probably more crucial to our business then what I thought would be the front. Pretty part.
Dahna Borg:
Yeah, definitely, I suppose a lot, I mean that’s true across any business really. A lot of people get stuck on, I’m going to build a website, it’s gotta be pretty first. Yes. And then they come to the business couple of years. I don’t know. Like it doesn’t matter that it’s pretty like it doesn’t totally work. So it’s good that you kind of have gone through both of those processes.
Dahna Borg:
So obviously you started the business, very word of mouth organically, you know, printing photos for friends and family. How did you take that step from friends and family to people who’ve never heard of you before? I suppose, because I know that’s something that a lot of new eCommerce businesses really struggle with. They can get a couple of sales from their friends and family and then making that, you know, step into the unknown and the new customers is, is where they really struggle. So how do you go with that?
Yuki Taylor:
So I used influencers and I just mentioned to you, I had a background in arts admin and I knew a lot of performers who had just joined Instagram and they were getting so many followers. So I just sort of reached out and said, Hey, will you, um, if you want to print some photos and share on Instagram, would you mind? And they’re all like, yeah, absolutely fine. So I guess that’s where it grew from. I was really comfortable sending DMS or emails to ask people to work with me. That was where my experience was. So we just started with social media and specifically Instagram. And over the years we’ve done used influencers really successfully.
Dahna Borg:
So are you still using influencers now?
Yuki Taylor:
Yeah. By now I know that influencers is the most successful strategy for us. I’ve dipped my toes in every other strategy.
Yuki Taylor:
I do a bit of paid ad ads, mainly remarketing, but nothing moves the needle for us as much as influencers.
Dahna Borg:
Do you have like a roster of influencers that you’re using or is it you’re always going out trying to find new influencers?
Yuki Taylor:
So always trying to find new ones. Some that we’ve worked with, with great success and you know, their followings become so big. I think they just generally end up working for the bigger brands. We try a few that have helped us with massive numbers. But I mean, after three years they go, thank you. But we’re gonna, you know, so I’m fairly specific about our target market. I know exactly who orders photos with us. And I rarely veer from it. Occasionally I’ll dip my toe in and go, Oh, podcast looks like it’s really taking off sponsoring podcast.
Yuki Taylor:
I try it, but it doesn’t do what influencers do.
Dahna Borg:
Yeah, well that’s, I mean it’s, I think it’s really good that you’re so clear on that. I find a lot of businesses, especially when they’re starting out, not that you’re still starting out, but they, you know, they spend too much time trying to do everything and then nothing really works. Where as you’ve really found something that works brilliantly for you and you’re like, look, we’re just gonna focus on this and then we’ll dabble here and there, but this is our core bread and butter. Wonderful.
Dahna Borg:
So at what point did you stop working full time and transition into full time into this business?
Yuki Taylor:
Oh, a year after we launched, I was working at night and working from my job and because when we started, we didn’t know what was going to happen. I was posting orders at lunchtime. I would take a big bag to work and sort of under my desk and take the orders to the postbox at lunchtime or after work. And so I set myself a goal in terms of income. I think the week our profit was more than what I was earning full time was when I would leave.
Dahna Borg:
Yeah. And you did it?
Yuki Taylor:
When it happened I went okay this is the sign that I need if I can, so then I’m not contacting influencers at five in the morning. So that’s pretty much, I mean it wasn’t really science or I just went, okay, if I can, if we can get this kind of profit working late at night and doing bits and pieces, I’m sure this is definitely scalable.
Dahna Borg:
That’s amazing. Was it, is it a scary time? Was it a really exciting time? Like I know a lot of people, you know, they’ve got their part-time side hustle and they dream of that day that they can, you know, quit and focus on the side hustle full time. What was that kind of experience like for you?
Yuki Taylor:
I probably would have jumped earlier because I was juggling babies and childcare and cooking and domestic stuff as well. So I probably would have jumped earlier. I was more, it was pretty exciting, I have to say, but definitely scary because it wasn’t a sure thing. Yeah. It was just one week. We did better than the week before. That’ll do and that’ll just be the benchmark. I said that’ll be fine. If we can do that, maybe we can do more. So it was good, you know, it was exciting, but I probably was really scared thinking I’m leaving a really great job. Yeah. Okay. Income, superannuation, you know, all of that. But yeah, it was pretty exciting to go. Nope. Sometimes I look at my morning run and look on the freeway that I used to sit on at seven in the morning. Yep. And go that this is all worth it. You know, seven in the morning I’m out running or riding my bike.
Dahna Borg:
Yup. Not on the highway. Yeah.
Yuki Taylor:
That freeway is bumper to bumper already. So yeah.
Dahna Borg:
No, that’s wonderful. So what would you have wished someone could have told you before you launched your, your tech e-commerce business? Like if someone could’ve given you something, what would that have been?
Yuki Taylor:
I probably wouldn’t have done it. Had I known that building an app was so much, so much work in so much more complicated than I ever thought and a constant maintenance and updates that we’ve had to do and that some of the things are out of my control, which is the app store you have to submit to the app store and they have often said no, change this, change that. Or you know when Instagram does, most of our customers are printing Instagram were printing Instagram photos when they have a change. There’s no call centre for Instagram. They do not reply to you. So you need to just make the changes that they are telling you to do. I don’t know if I would have understood that at the time that you know, and just recently we’ve had to make so many changes for Facebook.
Yuki Taylor:
Well because we are a third party app accessing their data and people use printing photos and that’s happened through out the last few years. Every time iOS changes, we have to check that we don’t need to update. And then there was massive iCloud changes. We to make so many changes then that I just probably wouldn’t do that now if I had known because that’s massive. That’s a massive additional cost is to go, Oh we have to update and then they bring a new iPhone with 20 billion megapixels and you know we have to now our customers are uploading to us massive files so we have to be able to help them and compress the photos even more and do things behind the scenes to accommodate that.
Dahna Borg:
So I mean for someone who is, has a great idea, they want to kind of launch something, would your advice just be, be prepared? Like it’s a lot more work than it seems?
Yuki Taylor:
I think validating and really deciding, finding out if an app has to be an app or a website because there’s so much difference in those. And if you are not solving a problem with your app, you might not get users, you might not get people who need to download it. If it could be a website or if you could validate on a website first and then build the app.
Dahna Borg:
So maybe your suggestion that you would start with the website first and then if that works.
Yuki Taylor:
I wish somebody told me to do that. I wouldn’t. Absolutely.
Dahna Borg:
So big piece of advice. If you can start with the website, validate your concept, then build the app. Absolutely.
Yuki Taylor:
Unlike a game, I think with, apps unless you’re going to solve problems for people and which we are because people have their photos on their phones. So that wasn’t, you know, thankfully that wasn’t a problem, but I kind of wish that we had built the web first.
Dahna Borg:
Fair enough. Okay. So you mentioned in your bio that you’ve made lots of mistakes. What’s maybe one of the big mistakes that you’ve made and what you would do different knowing what you know now other than the website first?
Yuki Taylor:
Yeah, I think there’s a lot of mistakes.
Dahna Borg:
I think everyone in business has a lot of mistakes. I had a lot of mistakes.
Yuki Taylor:
One of my most favourite mistakes I made that cost a lot of money. Was that point you made before about trying everything in terms of marketing? I think I really, when we had influencers that were working well and they were converting and I was finding all the right ones and then I went, Oh, let’s find different traffic. Let’s find different customers, let’s try cold traffic and it just work and I should have, I don’t know why I decided to do that. I really didn’t trust that influencers were so great. They were working really well. I thought, well if influencers work, let’s try, you know, diverting all that money to paid advertising and cold traffic and it probably didn’t play out the way I had thought and it was a lot more work to try and convert cold traffic in a competitive product that I have. You know, I know it works a lot of businesses, but because photo printing is so competitive,
Yuki Taylor:
I’d say your profit margins aren’t probably particularly huge either.
Yuki Taylor:
It’s hard to say because some of our products we have quite a large profit margin on. If we’re talking individual products, we have some products with large profit margins due to the way we are automated. But definitely some, we don’t make a lot of profit, but it’s a way to be competitive.
Dahna Borg:
Yeah. Cause I like, we know, I mean we specialise in Facebook ads, for eCommerce that’s known. But for instance, with a business like yours, that gets really tricky because some of your products are on a smaller price point. So if you’re trying to sell a $20-$30 product and it’s going to cost you $10-$15 per sale, which for most of our clients is amazing for you, it doesn’t work. Whereas you can go out there and get influencers and all of a sudden, you know, your profit margins work a lot nicer.
Yuki Taylor:
That’s exactly right. So I guess the mistake I made was not working that exact equation out that we were just getting so much from influencers and their followers. The cold traffic on Facebook, we were competing with every one. And we had to create content that was showstopping and yeah, it probably was a turn that I shouldn’t have gone in without understanding that.
Dahna Borg:
Yeah, I think that’s an important lesson for every business. And unfortunately I think it’s one of those scenarios that you can’t really learn from other people’s mistakes because there could be a business out there that’s currently doing influencer marketing that should be doing Facebook ads, and that’s going to be the thing that takes their business to the next level. But there might also be someone who’s in a similar situation to you that you know, they’re getting influencer marketing, it’s working really well, but if they move to Facebook ads, they’d have the same problem where it just doesn’t work because of margins and things. So I think that’s unfortunately one of those things that most businesses just have to try a couple of different things as they go. But I think that’s the beauty of business. I suppose.
Yuki Taylor:
So I use Facebook now for remarketing.
Dahna Borg:
Yeah. And that works well for you?
Yuki Taylor:
Yeah, it’s a bit, the cost is a bit lower and I know that they have engaged with my brand, so I’m not trying to convert really cold traffic.
Dahna Borg:
Just that little friendly reminder keep people engaged if they didn’t check out, you know, get them back. Those sorts of things.
Yuki Taylor:
So the conversion is much better in remarketing across the board I think.
Dahna Borg:
Yeah. Wonderful. So I know a lot of people really struggle with finding influencers and then finding the right ones. Do you have maybe one or two tips on how you found the right kind of influencers for your business?
Yuki Taylor:
I just found them on Instagram and sometimes they will have links to their managers or I’ll DM them. I don’t have a structure because some of them work really differently. I have someone who works for me doing our social media and she’s awesome. She’s really comfortable catching them in their DMS and saying, we’d love to work with you. Do we need to send you an email? But I can find my target market on Instagram because there was a long time when I was my target market, I had babies. Yeah, so I find them quite, it’s not to say that they’re always a success.
Dahna Borg:
What would you say your success ratio is with influencers, like out of you know, 10 or 15 how many of those would do well for you?
Yuki Taylor:
Maybe five.
Dahna Borg:
Really?
Yuki Taylor:
Yeah.
Dahna Borg:
That’s interesting. That’s good to know because for someone to say that their influencer marketing is such a powerful part of their business, but out of 10 influencers only half of them pay off. Yeah. That’s I think really encouraging for a business that’s starting off to go, well, she’s really successful. She’s built a business on this and she still only has a 50% success rate with influencers. Like that’s a really encouraging, Yeah. It’s like a reality check I think.
Yuki Taylor:
Yeah, I can easily say influencers work for us, but not all of them sometimes would choose the wrong one or sometimes I’ll pay probably, you know, one type of influencer who has massive amount of following is the, like the fitspo. Even if they’re parents would, I made an assumption that they’ve got babies, they’ve got lots of mums following them and massive engagement. But it doesn’t usually translate to our product. So you know, every year we get better and better and I often will go, Oh no, that’s, let’s not do that. But there’s also a lot of work. Also I’m negotiating rates and negotiating. All of that stuff can be time consuming and then sometimes one will surprise me and make up for all the ones that didn’t quite get the sales. But sometimes, often I’m happy to work with people that may might create really great content that we can reuse.
Dahna Borg:
Yeah, I think that’s the, not the challenge, but a good way to use influencer marketing. We run influencer campaigns for some of our clients and you really need to go into it and go, look, this is a longterm strategy. Find some good influencers. If it doesn’t work, we’ve got some good content out of it. If it does work, we know we can build these relationships and things. So I think the way you’re going about it is a really good way of doing it.
Yuki Taylor:
Well, we use a combination of paid and not paid.
Dahna Borg:
So like a contra deal, I guess get, you know photos printed in exchange. Yeah. Those sorts of things.
Yuki Taylor:
Yep. Yep. That’s right.
Dahna Borg:
Wonderful. Wonderful. So, I mean, in terms of, obviously your business is an eCommerce business, but it’s also a tech business. Is there any other information, secrets, lessons, mistakes that you’d like to share with people that are maybe in a similar position to you now? Or maybe they’re just kind of starting up
Yuki Taylor:
If you’ve got a start up and if you’re going to go into eCommerce, focus on shipping first.
Dahna Borg:
Okay. Why do you say that?
Yuki Taylor:
Because when you don’t know anything about shipping and postage costs, it may really change the profit because shipping in Australia is quite expensive, as you know, Dahna, you’re in that, the group (LMBDW), and that, those kinds of questions come up all the time. So if you’re going to start any eCommerce business, you really need to know that you’re gonna spend a lot of money shipping this and that your customers are going to have to pay, somebody has to pay for it. You just can’t hack shipping. You can’t make it super cheap unless you’re at scale. So you’re going to need to know how much something this certain weight is going to cost to ship and how long it’s going to take and the expectations of your customer.
Yuki Taylor:
So there are some products I’ve custom made, like our frames, we do Instagram frames. I carted around an Australia post satchel to my framer and to the packaging designer and said it’s just got to fit in here because that’s the max cost I can cope with for this. So just make it all fit in there. And because I’d learned by then that shipping was something that has to get paid and it’s pointless having something that weighs three kilos that you’re going to post to the Northern Territory because it’s going to cost you so much and take. And I don’t think somebody in the Northern territory wants to pay that price. So yes, there’s often I should cut around the satchels and say it’s just going to fit in here. Whatever it is, let’s make it fit in way that amount. So I think shipping for e-commerce, understanding the lay of the land is so crucial. More crucial than any other aspect I think because you will not, you’ll be surprised by your customer’s response to shipping costs. Yeah. So I think that would be one of my big crucial things to think about if you’re going to start an eCommerce is how much it’s going to cost to ship something and, and if it’s trackable or not trackable. And you know, couriers don’t go to every corner in Australia, Australia is too big. Yeah. So you just can’t use sendle all the time.
Dahna Borg:
I think that’s a great tip. A great tip. What about, is there anything else that maybe maybe haven’t covered for those that are already running kind of successful eCommerce businesses? Any tips or strategies to share?
Yuki Taylor:
I’m trying to think of something that just didn’t occur to me. I think, I guess once you have a marketing channel that is working and is profitable, I probably would recommend just staying there and putting the time, money and effort into that channel rather than bright shiny things and going, Oh well everyone’s doing this and everyone’s trying that. Because sometimes if when you find that profitable channel, I think you should stick with it to stick with it.
Dahna Borg:
Yeah. And I think, I think that’s really important. I think a lot of people get to that point when they feel like they’re making it and they’re like, awesome. Now we’re going to go hire a Facebook ads expert and we’re going to outsource our influencer and we’re going to go do this big course and we’re going to do YouTube ads and look, TikTok has just launched and they lose that core thing. So I think 100% spot on, you know, you’ve got something that’s working really focused on, you know, scaling that and making it work. And you can kind of look at other things if you want to grow once that’s kind of maxed out.
Yuki Taylor:
Yeah. But you know, not all marketing channels are just going to work. I just made an assumption that it would,
Dahna Borg:
I mean we specialise in Facebook ads. We know that it doesn’t work for all clients. Yeah. So I mean we go through that process with clients beforehand and hopefully that we never get into the situation where we don’t get those results. But it doesn’t work for everyone. It’s not some magic bullet influencers is not some magic bullet. If you have built your business on the back of something and it’s worked really well, you don’t really want to change the system too much.
Yuki Taylor:
Unless you’ve got the funds to try it. Um, my accountant reminded me that it’s all very well if you had, rather than relying on the revenue from for that to fund it, I should have had all of that in the bank first and then go, I can experiment with this.
Dahna Borg:
Yeah. 100%. And you don’t want to be pulling it away from something that’s already working. You want to have the money for that plus external money. Correct. Wonderful.
Dahna Borg:
Well, just got a last couple of questions which we ask every podcast guest. And do you have any secret strategies, routines, habits, that keep you on track in your business? Personally,
Yuki Taylor:
Personally I’m working with people. There was a long time where I worked from home by myself and that was really tough because I wasn’t talking to a lot of people. And I think that created a lot of problems for me mentally in my own head. And then I met some women who are also starting a business and in the park we used to work out together. Um, and so we came together and hired an office together. I just needed really good wifi and some office space for me and some other people. What, you know, another person they needed space cause there’s is a homewares and it just worked and it’s probably for my business really changed everything because I was able to talk to other people about business and about the struggles. And so I think, I know that’s not really business-related, but I think in, in some way it was all, it was the difference in me continuing with the business. And continuing to strive and continuing to see, I’m not dealing on making mistakes. Yeah. But we also celebrating each other’s successes. So I think that has really helped me in the last two years is to be working with other women who happen to also have children. And that’s also has been important for me.
Dahna Borg:
Yeah. Wonderful and I 100% agree with you! I know my mental health really suffers when I’m too isolated for too long. So I’ve got a girl who works with me in the office now and got communities of biz besties and networking events and I really need that, you know, get out of the house, keep yourself sane. So I think that’s really important. Yeah.
Dahna Borg:
Do you have a favourite business book? Business book?
Yuki Taylor:
I read a book called profit first recently.
Dahna Borg:
Ooh, I’m a big fan, big fan.
Yuki Taylor:
I like a bit of information that just comes really make sense. I think that’s been the most recent business kind of book that I’ve read that made sense to me and talked more about a simple strategy to not put yourself last all the time. Well, I have to say that’s been one of my favourite, I haven’t read many business people’s books, but a friend gave me Naomi Simpson books recently, you know from the shark tank.
Dahna Borg:
Ah, yes, yes. I’m not 100% sure if that’s a name, but we can confirm and put it in the show notes later. Yeah.
Yuki Taylor:
Yeah, and she said there was some really great stuff in there, especially about resilience and pushing through and being really clear on the problem your business is solving and how money flows in and out.
Dahna Borg:
Yeah. Wonderful. Do you have favourite podcast?
Yuki Taylor:
Business related?
Dahna Borg:
Personal, business? I had someone mention they like crime podcasts while they walk their dog in the morning. So, I don’t mind. I just like hearing what podcast people like so I can add them to my list.
Yuki Taylor:
Yeah, yeah. I sort of dabble in quite a lot of podcasts because I do exercise every morning. I do like a bit of mamma Mia. Do you know the Mama Mia network? Yeah, I don’t mind a bit of that. And business wise, I the startup podcast from Gimlet media. That’s really interesting way to see how tech people tech businesses can start.
Dahna Borg:
Yeah. Wonderful. Now if people want to find out more about your products, they want to check out your website, what’s the best way for them to go have a look at what you’re doing?
Yuki Taylor:
Yeah, so our website is pocketprints.com.au our iPhone app you will find in the app store under Pocket Prints. You can actually also find it through our website. There is a way to find it, that button to go on our website as well. And Instagram is @pocketprintsapp and all the links are there to find us. I’d love to offer your listeners a 10% off. Just use the coupon code DAHNA for 10% off.
Dahna Borg:
Thank you very much. I’m sure our listeners will love that. I had a, I’ve obviously had a look at your website and I love what you’re doing so I’m going to go order myself some magnets I think to stick on the fridge. I love it. Well, thank you very much for joining us. It’s been an absolute pleasure and enjoy the rest of your day.
Yuki Taylor:
I will do, Thanks Dahna.
Dahna Borg:
Thank you for listening to our first episode, the Bright Minds of eCommerce podcast. If you liked the show, I’d love for you to leave a review. It helps us to reach new listeners and helps us know we’re on the right track. If you want more need a recap or want to learn more about today’s guest, please head on over to our show notes. You can find them at www.brightredmarketing.com.au/shownotes/episode1
Dahna Borg:
The link will also be in the episode description if that’s easier for you. In today’s show notes, we will also have a quick tutorial on how to set up the retargeting ads that Yuki is using with her business. And lastly on that show notes page, there’s a section for questions, feedback, and guests. So if you have any guests suggestions, would like to be on the show or have a burning question you want asked, please go ahead and fill that out. We will be doing a bonus QandA episode every couple of weeks based on those questions. Thank you so much for listening. We will see you next week.
