Perfectionism was quietly killing her brand until she let herself be more human with Mary Grace

Mary G – Mary Grace (00:00)
I used to think that I was taking up too much space. And I realised I wasn't taking up enough. I wasn't living my life to my full potential, and I wasn't being vocal enough about who I am, why I belong at the tables that I'm at. And you have to fight for that, and you have to prove that you matter. I'm not saying you should have to prove it — we should all just matter at our core, because humans do matter. But when you're talking about the world of business, you are trying to stand out, and it's that weirdness, that individuality, that makes you stand out.

Dahna Borg – Bright Red Marketing (00:37)
And welcome to the Bright Minds of eCommerce podcast. I'm Dahna, founder of Bright Red Marketing, and I created this podcast because I wanted to bring you the best advice from Australian experts in eCommerce, and eCommerce store owners. If you're wanting relatable stories and actionable advice, as well as the latest Facebook advertising strategies, you're in the right place. So let's get into today's episode.

Hi, and welcome to the Bright Minds of eCommerce podcast. Today we're here with Mary from Mary Grace. Welcome.

Mary G – Mary Grace (00:59)
Thank you so much for having me, I'm so excited.

Dahna Borg – Bright Red Marketing (01:01)
It's so good to have you on the show. So, for those who don't know, tell us a little bit about Mary Grace.

Mary G – Mary Grace (01:05)
Mary Grace is a brand founded from my own issues, my own sensitivities.

I grew up in the most gorgeous world of beauty, skincare, home fragrance. We had a small family business, and I was just surrounded by all these luxurious things, and I couldn't wear or use any of it. I couldn't buy any from the supermarket or the chemist — I was so reactive to so many things, and I was just so tired of missing out. So I made it my mission to create a range of products for bath, body, and home that anyone can use, especially the most sensitive.

Dahna Borg – Bright Red Marketing (01:37)
Yeah, and you've done such a beautiful job. Now, hilariously, I realised in the research for this podcast that you've been in this version of the business since you were eight, which I didn't realise we had in common, because I also grew up in a family business, although mine was a slightly less direct relation. What was that sort of upbringing like, being in that kind of family business, to then where you are now?

Mary G – Mary Grace (01:59)
I left it briefly, realised that I preferred it. I spent my entire university life around bettering my role in this, but it was hard — it's hard. I'm European, Macedonian, and so the work ethic is, you know, you work until you die, and you've died because you worked so hard.

So it was seven days a week — I'd finish school, we'd go straight to work, late weekends, school holidays. But I do think that it taught me so much. It gave me so much value, and it gave me such a big head start in life, because people always say to me, how have you come so far, how have you achieved so much? And I say, well, I've been doing it for 20 years, I just got to start a lot earlier. So I got those life lessons much sooner, and I think about that in the long run.

Dahna Borg – Bright Red Marketing (02:48)
I really love that. I had a slightly different experience growing up in a small business — I was mostly used for labour in exchange for an iPod. But I was one of the first kids to get an iPod, so...

Mary G – Mary Grace (02:59)
Would have been kind of worth it.

Dahna Borg – Bright Red Marketing (03:02)
Especially when you're young. So look, the thing that I love so much about your branding is that you have a bit of a fun spin on it. A lot of founders are very clean and professional, everything has to be perfect. That's not to say your business isn't clean and professional, but you've got this silly, nostalgic, fun element to your brand instead. What was the reasoning behind that decision?

Mary G – Mary Grace (03:25)
I was the clean professional — everything had to be super perfect. My OCD was insane. I do all the graphic design, all the range creation, the product development, the social media, the website, basically anything you see regarding this brand, I do.

In the beginning, that perfectionism nearly got the better of me, but I realised that no one else needed the brand to be at the level of perfection I was expecting of it. The quality obviously is extremely high — the products, the packaging, the visuals, I love that high-end brand feel.

But the pressure I was putting on myself to get there was just so unreal. No one else knew what was in my head, what I thought it should have looked like. And I decided to step back, relax a little, and bring more of myself into it. When I did that, we started to get more of a following, more of a connection. And I realised that the rest of the world wasn't expecting me to be this picture-perfect thing, and it really helped me grow the community.

Dahna Borg – Bright Red Marketing (04:36)
I really love that, and I think that's the important thing too — you can have your product imagery and branding be crystal clean, immaculate, but the rest of it can still have a bit more fun and character.

Mary G – Mary Grace (04:48)
Not really, I—

Dahna Borg – Bright Red Marketing (04:49)
No, that's true. I think that's why you've built such a nice community, right?

Mary G – Mary Grace (04:54)
It separates you from the customer when you're picture-polished and perfect 24/7 — your customer doesn't feel like they belong. Mary Grace is customer first, not sales first. It's you matter, you are a person. I know my customers by name, not their order number or their email address. That comes from giving them a platform that makes them feel like they can connect.

Dahna Borg – Bright Red Marketing (05:17)
I really love that. Is there anything you do or keep in mind to stay very much on-brand for Mary Grace, rather than getting too trend-focused?

Mary G – Mary Grace (05:25)
That kind of happens by accident, because—

Dahna Borg – Bright Red Marketing (05:30)
That works.

Mary G – Mary Grace (05:31)
—I'm a one-woman band pretty much running all of it, so you tend to fall behind and miss out on trends. Which I know probably isn't the prettiest answer, or the trendiest one, but it's the reality of having a small business and trying to keep up. By the time a trend comes around and I realise it exists, it's already old news and I've moved onto three more.

Dahna Borg – Bright Red Marketing (06:00)
Yep, that's fair. On that note, is there any idea you've had where you've thought, I really love this, but I have to say no because it's not on-brand?

Mary G – Mary Grace (06:09)
My customer base is older, and I really love that, they're very loyal. It's not really a downside for me, but a lot of the trends just don't translate — they kind of miss it, or don't quite understand it. So I try to select trends that resonate with my audience, not just trends that might give me some sort of popularity, because everything I do, my customer is at the front of those decisions. I need to connect with my existing customers and keep them connected.

Some trends are also just... like the AI trend. I'm not really a fan of the use of AI, so I try to avoid those. If they don't align with the brand's ethics or morals, I'll avoid them. I just try to keep it as relevant as I can.

Dahna Borg – Bright Red Marketing (06:56)
I love that. You touched on this before — but when you went from being that picture-perfect, everything-super-polished brand, to being a bit more founder-led with more personality, how have you seen a difference in sales and engagement from that?

Mary G – Mary Grace (07:13)
My number one issue was that I was in my own way too much. I had to get out of my own head and just be present, be more open and involved. That's not to say you have to talk about everything, but connecting more with your customers requires that level of vulnerability, that openness, that willingness to be there with them. It's nerve-wracking sometimes, but the more I started to do that, the more I saw customer engagement improve, the response to emails, the response to communications — I started to see the return customer rate goes up a lot, even for new customers, because they know that you're real.

There's a big sense of, is this just another dropship company? They say they're in Australia, but are they actually? They need that proof, because they're not physically standing there touching your products, so they need to know that where their money is going is going somewhere.

Dahna Borg – Bright Red Marketing (08:02)
I really love that. I think there's such a big rise in eCommerce brands at the moment — everyone's trying to start an eCommerce business to make millions, and you and I can both attest to how hard that actually is. So when there's that much competition, it's really nice to see the humans behind it, because you get that emotional investment. It's not just, I'm buying this because it's pretty, or because it smells nice — it's, I'm buying this because Mary's a lovely human and I want to support her and her business, and I feel like she gets me, so I'm going to buy from her. I think that really helps.

Mary G – Mary Grace (08:34)
Massive, massive. There's a lot to be said about community. I literally call it the Mary Grace family — when customers order, I tell them, you're part of my family now. And you don't even have to buy anything, just existing in my sphere, you're part of the family, and that means a lot. Support for a business, especially a small business, could literally just be a follow or a like on Instagram — that can be such a huge thing.

There's a massive gap, especially in saturated industries like personal care and home fragrance, because a lot of brands think, I'll just put my name on this product and it'll sell. But personal care and home fragrance are both so deeply personal, in different ways, and you have to resonate with the person you're selling to. You can't just say, here, buy this, it's pretty. You have to tell them why you're different, why it works, why it matters, why they'll connect with yours over the millions of other brands out there.

Dahna Borg – Bright Red Marketing (09:36)
Yeah, a hundred percent. I think that's where a lot of people, especially those starting new brands, struggle — they've got a pretty product, but they haven't got the substance behind it, which I think is really interesting. If anyone listening is in that space of being too scared to put themselves out there because they're worried about being too much, or too weird, do you have any advice for them?

Mary G – Mary Grace (09:58)
Be weirder. You are never too much, and you are never too weird — and this is coming from someone who is a naturally weird human, I joke about it all the time. I love being weird, I love being neurodivergent.

I used to think I was taking up too much space, and I realised I wasn't taking up enough. I wasn't living my life to my full potential, and I wasn't being vocal enough about who I am, why I belong at the tables that I'm at. And you have to fight for that, you have to prove that you matter. I'm not saying you should have to — we should all just matter at our core, because humans do matter. But when you're talking about the world of business, you're trying to stand out, and it's that weirdness, that individuality, that makes you stand out. So do it. Do it again. Do it tenfold. Just don't ever not be yourself.

Dahna Borg – Bright Red Marketing (10:54)
I really love that. Obviously you've been in business a long time now, whether that's the family business you grew up in, or this one that's more your own. What would be some of the biggest pieces of business advice you've accumulated over that time?

Mary G – Mary Grace (11:08)
It's so hard. Anyone who tells you business is easy has never been in business, or they got lucky — they hit a popular stint at the right time and haven't experienced the hardship yet, or they came from money, which we all wish we did. No disrespect to that.

Dahna Borg – Bright Red Marketing (11:28)
If you are, I'm just jealous, really. Good on you, but also—

Mary G – Mary Grace (11:32)
Money does fix things, okay? Money does make you happy. No, but honestly, it's incredibly hard. It's exhausting, it can be very lonely. So you have to really love the thing you're choosing. Don't do it because you think it'll be quick money, or an easy fix, or cash on the side — if that's your mentality, fine, don't stress about it.

But if you want to take something seriously, take it and run with it, knowing it will always be hard, because even as you scale and grow, there will be different hurdles, and you have to always be on it, always putting out fires. I'm not saying that to scare you — business can be really rewarding. It's just that you always see people's successes, but you don't see the sleepless nights and everything they've had to sacrifice to get there.

Dahna Borg – Bright Red Marketing (12:25)
I'm a massive proponent of finding community in business, whether that's paying for it, getting coffee with people, or just building a community online — finding people who get it, because it's so hard otherwise.

Mary G – Mary Grace (12:41)
It's hard finding people too. A lot of people are closed off, they don't want to share their secrets, or they'll manipulate or step on toes. That's why I say it can be quite lonely — because those who haven't been in business or run a business don't realise, and then those in there kind of realise a little too late how hard it's been to find support. So when you do find someone who's supportive, nurturing, and good to you, you tend to cling to them, because it's so rare.

Dahna Borg – Bright Red Marketing (13:10)
I also find there's a bit of toxic positivity around, where people pretend everything's perfect and fine, everything's great, I'm so successful in business — and they don't talk about the hard, dirty parts of it. Which can be quite demoralising, if you're like you and me, where you're quite open about, this is hard, this is a challenge at the moment — it can feel quite disheartening.

Mary G – Mary Grace (13:34)
There's also a lot of negativity around it too. I've seen posts recently on social media where people say, I don't want to hear that your business is struggling, you're guilting me. And it's like, no, you're just being realistic — it's not about guilt-tripping anyone into doing anything, you're just being open and honest, because there's a lot of toxic positivity. That's why whenever people ask me questions, I try to be as realistic as I can, because you have to know what you're in for. It's not to tell you not to do it — it's saying, do it, by all means, grab it and go. But know what you're grabbing, and be prepared for the load you have to carry. Make an informed decision.

Dahna Borg – Bright Red Marketing (14:09)
Also, if you're guilt-tripped into buying something because someone's struggling, you should probably work on your people-pleasing, because—

Mary G – Mary Grace (14:16)
It's true.

Dahna Borg – Bright Red Marketing (14:17)
—buying something because you feel like, oh no, your business is sad, I have to buy something from you and you're unhappy about that... maybe take that up with your therapist, because that's not why people are telling you they're struggling. They're telling you because they're being honest and good humans. Weird side note.

Look, the reason I wanted to have you on the podcast in the first place, and it's such a great lesson you've just shared, is because you're so willing to have fun with your marketing. How do you come up with ideas for that?

Mary G – Mary Grace (14:46)
Before recently, I used to just sit there doom-scrolling on social media, looking at similar brands, and thinking, that works, how can I adapt that to me so I'm not copying? Because even though trends are trends, I don't like copying, I like making my own version. But then I found this incredible team of humans who have basically saved my life — one of them's a redhead, it's you.

Dahna Borg – Bright Red Marketing (15:15)
And—

Mary G – Mary Grace (15:15)
—you tell me what to do and I'm so happy. Once a week I get a list of, please do this, make this video, do this trend, and I don't have to think about it anymore. I could cry with happiness, because I have such an amazing support system in an area I was severely lacking. This is probably not the answer you wanted, but I really struggled to keep up with it before, and now I don't struggle so much.

For someone who's been so severely burned — and I'm not saying this to anyone listening, I say this even when she's not here, I'll yell it from the mountain — I have been so severely burned by people in your space that I was terrified. I actually think I cried before our opening call, I was so terrified to even consider bringing in an ads or marketing agency again. And it's been such a relief to have this level of support — it's not just, I'm running ads, it's, let's work on this in our market, let's try this, let's try that, actively trying things and giving me tricks.

So for me, it's been about finding good support, because there's such an overwhelm around it. But if you don't have that support yet, one tip I did get told was: look at your top five competitors, then look at their top five to ten posts over the last 30, 60, 90 days — whatever feels recent — compile them into a list, and figure out how you can adapt versions of those posts into your own business. That's something I started doing before I found you, to give myself more of a concise action plan, more of a guideline.

Dahna Borg – Bright Red Marketing (17:03)
And thank you so much for the kind words, we've absolutely loved working with you. So the moral of the story is: doom-scroll, get good support, or find your top five competitors and make good lists.

Mary G – Mary Grace (17:14)
There's an option for everyone.

Dahna Borg – Bright Red Marketing (17:16)
There's an option for everyone. It has been a pleasure working with you. On top of running Mary Grace, you've also built up a bit of a personal brand, and you're having quite a lot of fun with that. How's that going, and how do you find it helping the Mary Grace brand?

Mary G – Mary Grace (17:33)
It's been such a whirlwind. I've had my personal Instagram, which is just my name — Mary Gouganovski. The best part is you don't have to remember how to spell it, you just type in Mary Gou, and the rest comes up, because I'm the only one in the world. That's why I went with it, why I went full name.

But I'd had that account for so long, and honestly, so many of the followers were dead, or the algorithm just wasn't reaching them because they'd been built up such a long time ago, from when I first started Mary Grace — with all the algorithm changes, they'd become a stale audience. I'd been trying and trying to revive it, and I thought, I can't do this anymore, I'm tired of treating this like a professional account. I've always loved my fandom content, so I decided I was just going to start posting what I want, treat my Instagram as my personal diary, I don't care anymore. And then all of a sudden, it just went boom, it absolutely took off.

It literally started on my birthday — the twenty-fifth of June — no, the twenty-sixth of June, the day after my birthday, because that's when my first major viral post happened. And ever since then it's grown, I'm now at twenty-two and a half million views. It was the most toxic start, honestly, for the last 30 days, it's crazy. I kept waiting for the other shoe to drop, for it to stop being viral. Even now, I've noticed the algorithm will go a week with nothing, then all of a sudden two or three videos will go big, then a week of nothing. But overall, it's been big growth, in an audience I've been trying to tap into, mostly women — women in Australia, New Zealand, the US, England.

And because my brand is linked, I've been seeing that cross-following filter through, and a slow uptick in sales coming from Instagram. So it's very much a long game, but I'm having fun with it. It's exhausting, I didn't realise going viral would be such hard work, it's not easy to stay there — but I'm very grateful for it, it's been great.

Dahna Borg – Bright Red Marketing (19:32)
Who was it that commented on your thing the other day that we freaked out about?

Mary G – Mary Grace (19:36)
So I've had — Melissa O'Neil, the actress who plays Lucy Chen on The Rookie — comment.

Dahna Borg – Bright Red Marketing (19:42)
I know, she did?

Mary G – Mary Grace (19:43)
She commented. I've had The Rookie's official Instagram, ABC's official Instagram for the show. I've had the Divergent series' official Instagram, Lionsgate+'s official Instagram — they've all commented. And I've had, ooh, Agnez Mo, from Reacher season four — she has like 31 million followers, she liked my reel and commented on it. And I've had the actor Scott Patterson, who plays Luke Danes in Gilmore Girls, repost and share it.

Dahna Borg – Bright Red Marketing (20:11)
Basically, I know you, and then I know Luke Danes, therefore I know Gilmore Girls — by three degrees of separation, my life is complete.

Mary G – Mary Grace (20:19)
He shared it to his podcast's Instagram, replied to my comment. And my favourite author of all time, J.R. Ward, shared one of my stories to her story and me as well, and replied to my message, my DM. So I'm just dying over here.

Dahna Borg – Bright Red Marketing (20:34)
This is the power of just embracing it, being weird, and doing things.

Mary G – Mary Grace (20:38)
Be weirder — you're not weird enough. Okay, twenty-two and a half million views, and I've just been standing there looking at my TV holding an iron.

Dahna Borg – Bright Red Marketing (20:47)
This is true, fabulous. On that note, if people want to follow your business, or check out what you're doing on either page, what's the best place for people to find you?

Mary G – Mary Grace (20:57)
Instagram — Instagram's been my primary point of contact, because there's just so much social media to keep up with. Mary Grace Official, with an underscore at the end. And my personal account is under my name, Mary Gouganovski.

Dahna Borg – Bright Red Marketing (21:09)
We'll put it in the show notes. Or Sugar Hair Care—

Mary G – Mary Grace (21:12)
—which is my new baby, which we're launching.

Dahna Borg – Bright Red Marketing (21:15)
Which we'll be launching probably around the time this goes live, to be fair — so go check whether that's live by the time you're listening. Do you have a favourite business book or podcast?

Mary G – Mary Grace (21:25)
That's probably a disappointing answer, but I don't, because I got too overwhelmed.

Dahna Borg – Bright Red Marketing (21:32)
I think that's the best answer.

Mary G – Mary Grace (21:34)
Yeah, it was just too much, and no two businesses are the same. You can get advice, sure, but I find that quite a lot of the business advice you see in other podcasts is wrong, or not right for my niche, my specific business, or the way I operate. Everyone's different, and there was too much noise — trying to keep up with trends and social media, running the business, creating products, and then having other people in my ear telling me what they were doing, I was struggling.

But there is one business human I really like — Brittney Saunders. I love her Instagram, because she doesn't mess around, she's straight to the point, she comes in with facts, she talks about what businesses are struggling with, like the ATO, and actual things that even big businesses struggle with. It's the same things we as small businesses are struggling with, and it makes you realise you're not alone.

Also, the Lazy CEO, Jane Lu from Showpo — her podcast's Instagram, because it's just snippets, and I tend to extrapolate what I need from it. They're probably the ones I'd grab quickly, and I love it.

Dahna Borg – Bright Red Marketing (22:51)
It's also why I just read books about dragons now, because it gets me too much sometimes, so I'm with you there. Final question we ask everyone: what's the best piece of business advice you've ever received?

Mary G – Mary Grace (23:00)
If you want to do it, you have to be prepared to pay for it. I had a lady say this to me at a trade show — I was crying about something being really overwhelming, and she said, this is yours, and you are responsible for it, and if you want to see it succeed, you have to stop at nothing to make it succeed.

And then I also had another lady tell me, never be afraid to do what's right. Never be afraid to speak up for yourself, advocate for yourself, and if something doesn't feel right, it's not about chasing the money or chasing that relationship — it's about saying, no, this is what's right for my business. Keeping that in mind might take you a little longer to get where you're going, but it'll be worth it.

Dahna Borg – Bright Red Marketing (23:33)
A hundred percent, I love that. Well, thank you so much for joining us on the show, it's been an absolute pleasure. Thank you. Thank you for listening to the Bright Minds of eCommerce podcast. As always, you can find the show notes on our website at brightredmarketing.com.au. Just look for the podcast.

Thanks for listening.