We’re talking ugly ads, UGC and what really sells in our first Bright Red Marketing round table

Dahna Borg – Bright Red Marketing (00:00)
Hi, and welcome to the Bright Minds of eCommerce podcast. This one’s going to be a little different today. I’ve dragged the team into the studio. There are no scripts, just the people who are in your ad accounts all day sharing their side of it.

Dahna Borg – Bright Red Marketing (00:09)
Hi and welcome to the Bright Minds of eCommerce podcast. I’m Dahna, founder of Bright Red Marketing, and I created this podcast because I wanted to bring you the best advice from Australian experts in eCommerce and eCommerce store owners. If you’re wanting relatable stories and actionable advice, as well as the latest Facebook advertising strategies, you’re in the right place. So let’s get into today’s episode.

Dahna Borg – Bright Red Marketing (00:29)
Today we’re going to be talking all about creative: how we come up with the ideas, why some ads work and some flop for no reason, and the theories and strategies we argue about in the office. Creative is the biggest lever you’ve got in Meta right now. What you put in front of people does a lot of the heavy lifting. So I’m hoping you walk away with a few new ways to think about your own ads and get to know the people behind the scenes a little bit more. So let’s get into it. You already know me, I’m Dahna, founder of Bright Red Marketing, and then we have Emily...

Emily Gowers – Bright Red Marketing (00:56)
Hello.

Dahna Borg – Bright Red Marketing (00:57)
...and Rachel. Rachel, what’s your favourite part of your role and of your clients?

Rachel Russell – Bright Red Marketing (01:05)
Getting straight into it. My favourite part is probably always when we launch a new client. It’s definitely the most exciting part for me, getting into unpacking someone’s branding, learning about them, what makes them unique, and probably why their customers buy from them as well. Bringing in that data nerd side and having a look at what they’ve been doing in the past. It’s always fun when we do our deep dives into the ad account and see what’s been going on.

I think we always have constraints as well with the content that we’re given. It’s very easy to have a new client come on board and go, “This is everything we would love to do in a perfect world.” But it’s never a perfect world. So it’s always fun to deal with the content constraints. And honestly, the brainstorms we have as a team when we kick off a new client are so much fun. Then just seeing our clients every week as well, that’s always lovely.

Dahna Borg – Bright Red Marketing (01:58)
Agreed. Very, very much agreed. Emily, same question.

Emily Gowers – Bright Red Marketing (02:06)
Favourite part of the role, I think I would agree with Rachel, it’s the clients. They make the role. We are very, very blessed to have such amazing clients. I really do feel like we’re a big extension of their marketing team a lot of the time, which I love. I think we all get incredibly passionate about our clients, and we just love, love, love seeing all of our hard work work, basically.

And I think as a team, we all bring something so different. When we get together in our brainstorms, come up with these amazing ideas, then set them live and see them work, there’s just nothing better. So I’m very fortunate to work with such great people and such great clients. Overall, just amazing. Love it.

Dahna Borg – Bright Red Marketing (02:52)
I love that. I’d agree, we have the best clients. I feel like so many of our clients become more like friends the longer we work with them, and I really love that.

Rachel Russell – Bright Red Marketing (02:58)
Yes, it’s definitely when our clients start texting you, then we know we’re in.

Dahna Borg – Bright Red Marketing (03:04)
Or DMing us late at night, asking questions and asking for book recommendations. Then I know we’ve made it.

What is an ad that got you interested in something new recently, Rachel?

Rachel Russell – Bright Red Marketing (03:15)
I like to think of myself as being immune to online marketing since I started working in the Meta ad space. I feel like it’s so fun to almost know the psychology behind it now, where I can see things and go, “Yeah, I see what you’re doing there.” That being said, for me it’s always that aspirational content that gets me the most. It’s like, look at who you could be.

I saw one recently for stick-on eyelashes, Lash Glow, that was it. The first video I saw, it was, “Oh my god, I can be that girl.” Because I’m not one who wants to go to the salon and get all of that kind of stuff done. And they’re going, “In 60 seconds, you can be that girl.” Then they follow it up with all the educational ads about how easy it is, and I do still have their tab open, let’s put it that way.

Dahna Borg – Bright Red Marketing (04:07)
Yeah, I think it’s funny that you can be so in the market, and you’re like, “I know exactly what they’re doing,” and it’s still working.

Emily, are there any ad trends you’re hating at the moment?

Emily Gowers – Bright Red Marketing (04:19)
What annoys me the most, or what I don’t enjoy seeing, is brands jumping on trends just because everybody else is doing it, without actually thinking about their audience. You can really see that they’ve just tried too hard, and it just doesn’t work for them. It doesn’t resonate at all.

I’m also semi-sick of hearing the same hooks every time. “I wish I knew this sooner.” I’m sure it does work for some people sometimes, but I think just seeing the same thing doesn’t work. You’ve got to be unique. Trends do have a place, and it’s great when you can jump on them and it actually works for your audience, your brand and whatever you might be trying to sell. Also, if I hear another “POV”, I think I might scream.

Dahna Borg – Bright Red Marketing (05:16)
I think there’s something to be said for how quickly you get on the trend. If you get on there quick and you’re one of the first people to take on the trend, it doesn’t really feel like a trend yet. If you’re still doing the “my graphic designer is on holidays, here’s us doing it in Paint”, that’s four years old now.

Emily Gowers – Bright Red Marketing (05:30)
Saw that this morning. Absolutely hate that. I do think trends are really great from an organic social point of view, especially if you’re going to be jumping on them for Reels. But in a paid ad, when it’s going to be seen multiple times, sometimes it just misses its mark.

Dahna Borg – Bright Red Marketing (05:47)
Hundred percent agree. Now let’s talk about what works. When we’re looking at creative, we’re looking for what creative works. Emily, what are we looking at first?

Emily Gowers – Bright Red Marketing (05:57)
For whether it works, the first thing I’m looking at is purchases and return on ad spend. Straight away, that’s what I’m looking at, and that’s the first thing you want to look at at the end of the day. Ultimately, purchases matter. Unless you’re doing a lead gen campaign, then obviously we’re looking at leads and cost per lead. But as a whole, it’s purchases.

That doesn’t mean the softer stats aren’t important. Actually looking at the reach, the impressions, our click-through rate, all of that information is still super, super important. And if your cost per purchase is astronomically high, even though you’re getting purchases, that’s not great. That’s not what we want. So there’s a lot to it, but ultimately I’m looking at my purchases and my return on ad spend.

Dahna Borg – Bright Red Marketing (06:47)
Yeah. Emily is known in the office as one of the most brutal for turning things off, so we listen to that. You actually asked a really good question before we were recording about what the definition of “working” actually is, because we’ve talked a lot recently about having ads in the mix that serve a different purpose. Do you want to explain a little bit about what you mean?

Emily Gowers – Bright Red Marketing (07:09)
Yeah, absolutely. I think that comes up around the question of whether an ad can be good even though it’s not performing. If it looks good and it’s not performing, it’s like, okay, that probably doesn’t make it good. But it could have a really good place in terms of storytelling, something that’s a bit more of an informative piece that actually holds a place in the market.

You don’t always want to be sell, sell, sell, sell, sell. It’s really important to have different messages. One of the greatest ads we’ve run from a click-through point of view, or just getting people on the website (which eventually did lead into sales, but not to start with), was actually an image of the team. It was a team photo of that particular business.

And I think that’s just what people want to see. They want to see the people behind it. They don’t just want to be sold to with “Hey, we’ve got this amazing product, it’s on offer.” It’s really nice to have an educational or informative piece, something a bit different that cuts through the usual stuff people might just scroll straight past. So looking at those softer metrics, like click-through rates, sometimes they can actually hold a really important place in your ad account.

Dahna Borg – Bright Red Marketing (08:27)
A hundred percent. Rachel, what’s your take?

Rachel Russell – Bright Red Marketing (08:30)
I think we see the same, very much in the Advantage+ campaigns as well, where they’re looking for more of that ecosystem and the staging of different ads. I can see there’s an ad in there that might not have a high return on ad spend, but it’s got something like a lower cost per click or a high click-through rate.

Or I’m keeping it on because I’m looking at the content and going, “Well, I know this is answering a key question in that buyer journey.” Based on the stats, it’s obviously not something they’re actually purchasing off, but it’s probably important to keep it on so they’re able to see it in their journey.

Dahna Borg – Bright Red Marketing (09:13)
Yeah, I think that’s a really important piece, and that’s why I get nervous when I’m auditing accounts and they’ve got Advantage+ with two ads in there. I’m like, “What story are we telling people with two ads? We really need to flesh that out just a smidge more.”

Now, we do a lot of this in-house. Tell us how we go from concept brief to ad. Talk us through the process. Emily, if you want to go first.

Emily Gowers – Bright Red Marketing (09:39)
It can start with just looking at what’s working in the ad account already. That doesn’t necessarily mean you do it again and it will work, but if you do see something working, it’s always good to try and make other versions of it. I think that’s a super important thing to do, but don’t be surprised if it doesn’t work. So that’ll be the first step.

Another thing we do really well as a team is brainstorming. Rachel and I work on different accounts, so it’s really great to get together and go, “Hey, I’m actually running this for this client. Have you thought about that for your client?” We come up with all these great ideas, and then it’s a case of doing some research, having a look to see if anyone else is doing something similar, and then briefing it into our amazing designer Lucelle, who helps bring that concept to life.

When we’re briefing our creative, we’ve got to be really clear on the purpose of it. Make sure we know who we’re speaking to and what the message is, and make sure it just makes sense. And obviously, especially with Advantage+ now, creative is so important. We don’t just want to be targeting a cold audience. We want to make sure our different ads have different messages so they cut through to people who are engaged, existing customers, people we want to retarget and so on. Then once it’s live, we’re looking at all that data, learning, and feeding it back into the next round of creative at our next brainstorm.

Dahna Borg – Bright Red Marketing (10:57)
A hundred percent. Rachel, as our resident queen of the launch board, do you have anything to add to that?

Rachel Russell – Bright Red Marketing (11:04)
On top of our brainstorms with the team, I’d say client meetings are really important as well. As founders of their own businesses, they’ve been so close to it for possibly so many years that they sometimes forget to mention the important things in their onboarding forms. So having those regular meetings is great, because they’ll say something really offhand and you’ll go, “Oh my god, I’m using that for an ad tomorrow.”

And even reviews from their customers and new UGC videos, seeing what the people using their products are picking out. The things customers love might actually be different from what the founder or brand owner thinks they’re selling them. Customers can be buying for completely different reasons, and that gives us more depth and lets us reach more people in the ad account.

Dahna Borg – Bright Red Marketing (12:03)
Yeah, a hundred percent. I think it’s really interesting. Like you said, clients get too close to it. They’ll say something and you’re just like, “No one knows that.” Or they’ve got this product and they know it fixes this problem, and we’re like, “You have not said that anywhere. Can we tell people?” And they’re like, “But it’s obvious,” and we’re like, “To you! It’s not obvious to everyone else.”

Rachel Russell – Bright Red Marketing (12:26)
I’ve actually had ideas come from family dinner nights. We’re at the dinner table talking after work and I’m debriefing on my day, telling them about a new client we’ve just signed or something that’s going on, and a family member or friend will say something and I’m like, “Oh yeah, that’s a great idea.” Write it down in my notes for work tomorrow.

Dahna Borg – Bright Red Marketing (12:47)
On that note, outside of family dinner, where do you find most of your best ideas come from?

Rachel Russell – Bright Red Marketing (12:52)
I feel like it’s the conversations with other people. It’s the brainstorms with the team, the conversations with the client, and the conversations outside of that, like the ones the brand owner is having with their customers. Sometimes jumping into the comment sections of ads, there are interesting things going on in there.

But I also love a good swipe file, always taking inspiration from what other people are doing in the space. And then looking at different industries. If you’re only looking for inspiration in the same industry the brand’s already in, going completely outside it and seeing the strategies completely different industries are using can be really helpful.

Dahna Borg – Bright Red Marketing (13:37)
I think it gets a little cannibalistic if you just keep looking at competitors and going, “What are my competitors doing?” It just ends up being this vicious cycle. Whereas I know we’ve gone outside, picked out something from a completely different industry, brought it into an industry, and then watched it go through that industry, and we’re like, “We did that. Please stop stealing. Go get your own new ideas.” Emily, anything to add?

Emily Gowers – Bright Red Marketing (14:00)
Pretty much what Rachel said, but what’s really interesting sometimes when we’re chatting as a team is that some of our clients very much resonate with us as people, with what we might be into and what we purchase. And then some absolutely don’t. Like some of Rachel’s clients, I’m just like, “Well, that’s not me.” So then it’s really interesting to work it back from, “Well, what else don’t I like that they might like?” Because then you come up with completely new ideas from almost a backwards way of looking at it.

And obviously late-night scrolling, you can come up with some really interesting things and work out how we can do that.

Rachel Russell – Bright Red Marketing (14:43)
Standing in the shower, you know, having too much time to wash your hair.

Dahna Borg – Bright Red Marketing (14:49)
The number of times you guys come into work and you’re like, “So I was out with the girls having dinner,” or, “I was watching TV, I was watching Pirates of the Caribbean, and I had this idea.” The ideas come from everywhere.

Now, we obviously know these ideas get turned into good creative, and we know that good creative gets done by, we call her the wizard, Lucelle. How much of good creative do you think is the idea itself, and how much of it is Lucelle working her magic?

Rachel Russell – Bright Red Marketing (15:17)
I would say it’s fifty-fifty. You can run really pretty content, and we could give Lucelle briefs with really off-brand messaging, or things that aren’t speaking to the customer. Lucelle can make it really pretty, but if we’re not hitting the reasons they’re going to buy that product, I think it’s going to miss the mark.

But you can also have a perfect strategy and know exactly why your customer is coming through, and if it doesn’t look good, if it’s unprofessional or doesn’t match your website (which is another big one we see), I think you’ll lose people there as well.

Dahna Borg – Bright Red Marketing (16:01)
Yeah, a hundred percent. Emily?

Emily Gowers – Bright Red Marketing (16:04)
Yeah, look, it’s definitely a team effort, and fifty-fifty, Rachel nailed it there really. You could have the best concept in the world, but if the execution doesn’t communicate clearly, it’s probably not going to land. On the other hand, you can have the most amazing-looking ad, but if the messaging isn’t compelling or isn’t right, it’s not necessarily going to drive sales. So you need both. And Lucelle is amazing at deciphering some of our briefs and actually coming up with even better ideas than what we had.

Rachel Russell – Bright Red Marketing (16:36)
They’re not always fifty-fifty.

Dahna Borg – Bright Red Marketing (16:38)
I was going to say, it’s probably fifty-fifty for you guys. If I write a brief, it’s definitely more like seventy-thirty, and the thirty is the idea I came up with, because I’m like, “Here’s a really vague thought.” And then she goes and does her magic.

Emily Gowers – Bright Red Marketing (16:52)
Absolutely.

Dahna Borg – Bright Red Marketing (16:53)
Alright, we’re going to change things up a little bit. I’m going to give you guys a hot take and then I want your thoughts. Are you ready?

Emily Gowers – Bright Red Marketing (16:58)
Let’s go.

Dahna Borg – Bright Red Marketing (16:59)
Ugly ads outperform pretty ones.

Emily Gowers – Bright Red Marketing (17:02)
Oh, there’s some truth to that. I have seen some horrendous-looking ads that have definitely outperformed the pretty ones. So yeah, definitely some truth in that.

Rachel Russell – Bright Red Marketing (17:13)
I’d say I disagree a little bit more. When they’re ugly in comparison to your other ads, they can work really well, because it’s like, “There’s something different here.” But if they’re all ugly...

Dahna Borg – Bright Red Marketing (17:26)
Very fair point.

Emily Gowers – Bright Red Marketing (17:26)
You’ve got to have a mix, but it’s nice to have something in the mix that’s less polished, because it feels that little bit more real sometimes.

Dahna Borg – Bright Red Marketing (17:36)
Hundred percent. UGC is overrated.

Emily Gowers – Bright Red Marketing (17:40)
UGC is not overrated. Bad UGC is overrated. Having a bunch of UGC saying the exact same thing, the same script, is not ideal. But UGC is one of the best things you can have running in your ad account, especially if it comes across as authentic.

Rachel Russell – Bright Red Marketing (18:01)
Yeah, my straight answer to that is no. Even when it’s bad UGC, I feel like that’s one of the hard ones to pick. I’ve seen UGC come through that we’re running anyway, and I go, “This isn’t going to work,” and then of course the ad account’s like, “Ha ha.”

Dahna Borg – Bright Red Marketing (18:20)
Very much the case. The first two seconds of an ad are the most important.

Emily Gowers – Bright Red Marketing (18:25)
A hundred percent, especially for video, which is obviously what we’re talking about. If you don’t get someone’s attention early, they’re probably not going to stick around.

Rachel Russell – Bright Red Marketing (18:32)
Fifty-fifty again. Yes, you need to get their attention, but if they’re only staying for the first three or four seconds and not actually watching to the end of the video or clicking through, a high hook rate isn’t going to do anything if they’re not clicking or purchasing.

Dahna Borg – Bright Red Marketing (18:49)
Basically, the first two seconds have to be bloody good, but you also have to keep them once they’re there. There’s no point having a good two seconds if the rest of it is rubbish.

Emily Gowers – Bright Red Marketing (18:59)
Absolutely.

Dahna Borg – Bright Red Marketing (18:59)
More creative is always better.

Emily Gowers – Bright Red Marketing (19:01)
Yeah, especially in this day and age with Advantage+, having lots of creative is definitely great. I definitely think you need it now. You can have one video or one image ad with five different headlines, because with Advantage+ you’ve really got to be thinking about all the different audience segments out there. So yes, bring on the creative.

Rachel Russell – Bright Red Marketing (19:25)
With quality over quantity still. I’m not going to say make ads just for the sake of it.

Emily Gowers – Bright Red Marketing (19:33)
There’s got to be a place for them, definitely. No pumping out ads for the sake of volume. They’ve got to have a place and a message. And like you said, Dahna, you don’t want an Advantage+ campaign with two ads in there.

Dahna Borg – Bright Red Marketing (19:47)
No. I’m just thinking, you’d make one ad and then Meta’s AI goes, “Here are fifteen other options.” Those fifteen other options are not what we’re talking about when we say more creative is better. More good creative is better.

Video ads always need captions.

Emily Gowers – Bright Red Marketing (20:01)
If there’s someone speaking, definitely. People often scroll without any sound, and I’m definitely one of them. I will watch a ten-minute video purely with captions. Definitely need it.

Rachel Russell – Bright Red Marketing (20:12)
Yeah, I’m also a straight yes. Half the time I’m on social media, I don’t have headphones in, and if you’re with anyone, it’s just good etiquette not to be watching things with the volume on.

Dahna Borg – Bright Red Marketing (20:21)
This is true. Creative is the new targeting.

Emily Gowers – Bright Red Marketing (20:25)
With Advantage+, yeah, I do quite agree with this one, especially with the way Meta is doing its thing now. I don’t fully agree, because we still target a lot of specific audiences, but with the way things are going, being very clever with your creative is very, very important.

Rachel Russell – Bright Red Marketing (20:45)
And sometimes it doesn’t need to be in the creative, on the image or video specifically. You can put information in your ad copy that helps point Meta towards who you’re looking for. So you can be directly calling people out without it saying “Hey, audience” on your image.

Dahna Borg – Bright Red Marketing (21:08)
Very much agree. I will say we as an agency still believe in interest-based targeting, as much as creative is still key. I know we all have clients still running traditional interest-based audiences, which seems to baffle many people.

Emily Gowers – Bright Red Marketing (21:24)
Yeah, and the fact that they still work really well. There’s always a place for it, there’s always a place to test it.

Dahna Borg – Bright Red Marketing (21:30)
Exactly. AI is going to take our jobs.

Emily Gowers – Bright Red Marketing (21:35)
Look, I think AI will change how we do our jobs, but I don’t think it will take them. You need to have that human behind it to work on the strategy side of things. AI might help speed up production and help you look at data in different ways, but as a whole, no. You’ve got to have that human element. And you can see now with those who are relying on AI so much, you can just tell there’s no human behind it, and it just doesn’t work.

Rachel Russell – Bright Red Marketing (22:06)
Yeah, I hope AI isn’t going to take our jobs. I’m the same, I don’t think it will. Like Em said, there’s a lot of AI content out there. Even if it’s not generated imagery or video, it’s sometimes really obvious when people have just jumped into ChatGPT or Claude with a fairly simple idea and had it spit out really elaborate, I want to say wanky, headlines to put on things.

Sometimes you just need to say what you’re trying to say. We’re seeing a pushback against that. People want things that sound like they’ve come from people, not the most elaborately crafted headline. Just tell me the reason.

Dahna Borg – Bright Red Marketing (22:54)
Yeah. My theory is that the more AI gets used, the more everything’s going to sound the same, and you’re just going to need a human with a weird and wacky thought to actually make it sound human again.

Let’s talk about some ads you thought would fail that ended up winning, and some ads you thought would win that ended up failing. I feel like this is something clients see a lot. We’re like, “Oh my god, this is going to be the best ad ever,” and then crickets. And then we go, “We don’t think we should run that one,” and it goes really well. Rachel, do you have any thoughts, feelings and examples?

Rachel Russell – Bright Red Marketing (23:27)
Off the top of my head, first of all, content creators. I feel like they’re very hit and miss. Founder videos are something we’ve had experience with recently too. Founder videos are the absolute thing to have in there, and I’ve got one client at the moment where we’ve been trying them for years, and they go okay, but not as well as they technically should.

Really simple product ads can surprise you as well, even just going, “Hey, here’s a bundle we sell on the website. You can bundle and save 10%.” It’s something people aren’t finding on their own, and those ads can work really well.

Dahna Borg – Bright Red Marketing (24:04)
Easy peasy. Emily?

Emily Gowers – Bright Red Marketing (24:06)
Yeah, look, some actual examples I’m thinking of are around UGC. For a specific client, we got one video and it was blurry. It really didn’t look that great, but we were so short on content that we were just like, “You know what, let’s just run it, put some captions on it and see what happens.” And it performed so well for months.

Now, I’m not saying go out there and shoot rubbish content, because that might not work for you. But this particular client’s brand is very rough and ready, which I think a lot of their customers are too. So it really brought that human element and realism to it. Having that work, and for as long as it did, was insane.

On the other hand, with another client we get a lot of UGC for, we were getting some big influencers. We were banking a lot on a specific influencer to come in, take some video and provide it to us for ads. And it was surprising how it just fell flat. It didn’t work. It’s absolutely bizarre. Sometimes you think you’ve nailed it, and other times you don’t. That’s why it’s so important to have a real range of ads in your ad account. And like I’ve said before, just because something’s worked once doesn’t mean it’s going to work again.

You’ll also be surprised that sometimes the simplest ads work, and you forget about them. Sometimes in a brainstorm, Dahna might just say, “Hey, have you done this recently?” And you go, “You know what? I haven’t, let’s try it.” And then you go, “Well, why wasn’t I doing that before? It’s brilliant.”

Dahna Borg – Bright Red Marketing (25:47)
Yeah. I think that’s where it comes back to having a lot of creative. The reason you need a lot of creative is because sometimes the thing that should work doesn’t, and the thing that shouldn’t work does. You need to have enough going through.

My favourite example of all time will always be Dino Lady. We had a really high-end fashion brand as a client. They were very much about the aesthetics, and we were trying very hard to get them to do a bit more rough and ready, to be a little bit more human. They got this photo of one of their customers in one of their outfits. She looked adorable, running away from a giant cardboard T-Rex.

I reckon it took us about three weeks of convincing to use that particular image. I don’t remember the stats, but it made thousands and thousands and thousands of dollars. So again, we thought that would work. The client did not. Thankfully, in that particular instance, we were correct. But it’s still one of my favourite stories of all time.

Emily Gowers – Bright Red Marketing (26:43)
Yep, definitely.

Dahna Borg – Bright Red Marketing (26:44)
Rachel, you touched on it a little bit in your last comment, but what are your thoughts on founder videos as a whole?

Rachel Russell – Bright Red Marketing (26:51)
As a whole, they’re the best way to connect with the audience, being able to see the face behind the brand. We work with a lot of small to medium businesses where the founder is the person packing the orders, sending the emails, doing all the website updates, doing everything really. So being able to see that it’s one person behind the brand, and feeling like you can connect and buy in with that person, is so good.

Not everyone is comfortable on camera, though. If you’re a founder who isn’t comfortable on camera, don’t try to force yourself to do it. It’s something you can work up to as well. I know we’ve got a few where voiceovers are an easier level of buy-in, because you’re not having to sit down and actually talk to a camera, which is beyond intimidating. Even photos of founders work. Em touched on running team photos before, and that’s had success with clients as well.

So if you’re comfortable doing it, yes. If you’re not, look for workarounds where you’re still doing it, but maybe not in the way the internet is telling you to do a founder video.

Dahna Borg – Bright Red Marketing (28:02)
Hundred percent. Emily, any thoughts?

Emily Gowers – Bright Red Marketing (28:04)
No, I completely agree. Sometimes it’s even just sharing your warehouse, behind-the-scenes snippets. I’ve had clients who also aren’t comfortable doing voiceovers, and I totally get it. So even just having those more real behind-the-scenes images and videos goes really well.

Dahna Borg – Bright Red Marketing (28:29)
Yeah. One of the best tips I ever got is to film what you’re already doing, and we do try to teach this to clients. If you’re already packing orders in the warehouse, just film it. If you’re already doing podcast interviews, just film it. Whatever you can capture of things you’re already doing, sometimes that’s a really easy way in.

Emily Gowers – Bright Red Marketing (28:47)
And it doesn’t have to be perfect. I think a lot of people get stuck on “But I won’t be very good at filming it” or “It won’t look great.” Just give it to us raw and ready...

Dahna Borg – Bright Red Marketing (28:56)
That’s what Lucelle is for.

Emily Gowers – Bright Red Marketing (28:58)
Exactly, and we’ll turn it into something amazing.

Rachel Russell – Bright Red Marketing (29:01)
And sometimes the bloopers work best as well. People don’t want to see polished founder content all the time.

Dahna Borg – Bright Red Marketing (29:09)
Yeah, sometimes it’s the funny, weird stuff. Again, it’s showing that human side, and I think that’s going to become more important the more AI takes off. The more you can just be your weird, wonderful self, the better it’s going to be.

Rachel, if there’s one thing you could ban from every ad forever, what would it be?

Rachel Russell – Bright Red Marketing (29:25)
It would be those terrible AI images that all look exactly the same. You know the ones people just comment “AI slop” on? Yeah, that’d be it.

Emily Gowers – Bright Red Marketing (29:39)
The Paint one, the old-school Paint. “Our marketing team’s gone away.” It was funny a few years ago, the first time you saw it, and now...

Dahna Borg – Bright Red Marketing (29:47)
It was funny the first five times. Now I don’t think I’ve seen a good one in months. Years? It’s been a very long time.

Emily Gowers – Bright Red Marketing (29:55)
No, it’s been a long time.

Rachel Russell – Bright Red Marketing (30:00)
I feel like people resurrect them during sales periods for some reason. I don’t know why. I think at Black Friday we’re going to see them again, and we’re going to see too many.

Dahna Borg – Bright Red Marketing (30:07)
You’ll see so many. I will say, I’m really enjoying the WordArt. You know, ’90s old-school PowerPoint? Rachel’s too young to know this, but the proper orange 3D...

Rachel Russell – Bright Red Marketing (30:15)
No, no, I loved it.

Dahna Borg – Bright Red Marketing (30:18)
I’ve seen a couple of brands doing that lately, but they’ve paired it with really clever video editing behind it.

Emily Gowers – Bright Red Marketing (30:27)
Well, that’s the important part, because I saw one of those recently, along the lines of that awful Paint vibe, and it just missed its mark completely.

Dahna Borg – Bright Red Marketing (30:38)
No, this was a really clever one. The video in the background was really well done, and then there was 3D WordArt coming out of the background in a very... what year are we in? 2026 style. It’s very clever. Again, you can do these things if you’re clever about it. So we’ll go with that.

Rachel Russell – Bright Red Marketing (30:55)
I think it depends on the audience as well. You can’t market that to 18 or 20-year-olds. They’re not going to get it.

Dahna Borg – Bright Red Marketing (31:01)
No, this was definitely not for 18 to 20-year-olds. They hit their mark. Also, there was a whale, so they really hit their mark.

If you had to give one tip for those managing their own creative, other than hiring us so they don’t have to do it anymore, what would your tip be, Emily?

Emily Gowers – Bright Red Marketing (31:17)
Try everything. If something doesn’t work once, there’s always room to try it again. Try things, but do pay attention. If you’ve tried something and it hasn’t hit the mark, look at why. Is it the messaging? What is it?

The other big thing is to look at your customer reviews. Look at what your customers are saying and see if you can come up with some creative based around that, because at the end of the day, it’s all about your customers and you want more of them. So see what they’re saying, understand why they’re buying, whether they’ve had a problem and found a solution, and just run with that.

Dahna Borg – Bright Red Marketing (32:00)
Yeah, fabulous. Rachel, what’s your take?

Rachel Russell – Bright Red Marketing (32:03)
Mine would be variety. Especially in the Advantage+ ecosystems we’re running in, make sure you’ve got that variety at all times. If you’re turning things off, or things are fatiguing in a certain category that’s doing a certain job, make sure you’re replacing them in time and have new stuff ready to go.

I’d lean on UGC creators as well. Content is the name of the game, so if creating content is hard for you, lean on the people who do it for a living. And actually emotionally connecting with your audience is a big thing. So take those customer reviews, and even if it’s not a problem-solution angle, focus on that emotional buy-in.

Dahna Borg – Bright Red Marketing (32:49)
Yeah, I love that. Well, thank you both for joining me on the podcast. I know you’ve got busy things to do and clients to look after, but I really appreciate you sharing all these wonderful things.

Emily Gowers – Bright Red Marketing (32:59)
Thank you. Thanks for having us.

Rachel Russell – Bright Red Marketing (33:00)
We had fun.

Dahna Borg – Bright Red Marketing (33:01)
Thank you for listening to the Bright Minds of eCommerce podcast. As always, you can find the show notes on our website at brightredmarketing.com.au. Just look for the podcast page. Thanks for listening.