The real reason AI isn't working for your business yet with Em Gee

Em Gee (00:00)

If you’re already talking to AI a bit about your business, you’ve got an account, you’ve shared a bit but haven’t used it for a lot — go in there and just say, based on what you know about my business, how could I be using AI better?

Dahna Borg – Bright Red Marketing (00:12)

Hi and welcome to the Bright Minds of eCommerce podcast. I’m Dahna, founder of Bright Red Marketing, and I created this podcast because I wanted to bring you the best advice from Australian experts in eCommerce and eCommerce store owners. If you’re wanting relatable stories and actionable advice, as well as the latest Facebook advertising strategies, you’re in the right place. So let’s get into today’s episode.

Dahna Borg – Bright Red Marketing (00:32)

Hi and welcome to the Bright Minds of eCommerce podcast. Today we’re here with Em Gee to talk all about AI. Welcome!

Em Gee (00:39)

Thank you so much for having me here, I’m excited.

Dahna Borg – Bright Red Marketing (00:41)

It is so good to have you on the show. Can you tell us a little bit about yourself and how you ended up in the AI education space?

Em Gee (00:46)

Where do I start with this? AI obviously, for the majority of us, has not existed for very long, so I’ve only been in this sector of the marketing industry for the last two to three years. But before that, I had a business where I was coaching in marketing for female-founded businesses. What I do now is educate female founders to use AI in their marketing and their operations to save 10 to 15 hours a week, at least. And that’s where we start, because especially with females, reducing our workload and giving us back more time — we’re wearing all the hats. It’s very, very helpful to have that time. You can use it to either make more money or go to the beach, hang out with your kids, go to the gym, whatever it is you want to do. Most women have started a business because they want to create more freedom, and then we get to a point where we’re like, I have no freedom. In fact, I have the opposite. And that’s what AI can completely solve relatively quickly, which is mind-blowing.

Dahna Borg – Bright Red Marketing (01:48)

Yeah, it’s an incredible area and I’m so excited to have a chat about this with you. So if you’re speaking to an eCommerce brand owner — because that’s most of our listeners — and they’re like, we want to start using AI in our marketing, where do you think most people start and where do you think people actually should start?

Em Gee (01:58)

It’s a really good question, and I’m very glad you’ve started with this because it’s the biggest reason people don’t get a result from AI — they’re starting wrong. Most people start by getting ChatGPT and asking it to write them some content, some captions, and then going, this does not sound like my brand, I’m throwing it in the bin. And I think that makes sense, that’s kind of how I started, because I did a lot of just messing around with things to see what happens. But I wanted to do that intentionally to learn about AI. Whereas people in eCommerce businesses aren’t like, I want to learn about AI — they’re like, I want to use AI to get a better result in my business. So where everyone starts, honestly, whether you’re eComm, service-based, massive organisations, small businesses — everything is the same.

Dahna Borg – Bright Red Marketing (02:48)

100%.

Em Gee (02:56)

It’s finding what the current bottlenecks in your business are and what is taking your time. Because those are the things that, if you start to use AI for them, will save you the most time. We aren’t taking a problem-solving approach, we’re taking a spaghetti approach — throw it and see what happens. And you will learn things that way, that’s how I’ve learned a lot of what I know, but it takes a lot longer and you don’t actually get a return on investment in terms of your time, or if you’ve invested anything to pay for those AI tools. And it’s not as fun. Of course downloading an app and playing with it is so much more exciting than being like, let’s look at the problems. I get that. And that’s why the first part of my course — even though my course is on AI — has nothing to do with AI, because 99% of small business owners don’t know what their problems are that they’re trying to solve, and they also don’t know their processes. You can’t get AI to follow a process if you don’t even know your process.

Dahna Borg – Bright Red Marketing (04:01)

Yeah. So I think the podcast is done — you’ve said everything that is important. Go sort your processes out first. I know this is true. We’ll keep going. I think I’m definitely one that falls prey to this myself. I’ll see someone talking about a shiny new tool and I’m just like, what’s this? This looks like fun. But I think that’s a really good point around just solving one thing at a time.

Em Gee (04:55)

And that is something I’ve learned the hard way too, because initially when I created my AI Marketing Machine course, I called it 10 cogs — we’ve got a machine, right? And obviously marketing, branding, it’s got some cogs. So I was getting everyone to come up with these 10 different cogs in their machine that they could create to save them time. But what I worked out is that not everyone needs 10 cogs. Some people just need one. You just need one thing that is really well AI-ified — I’ll put that in inverted commas, it’s not a real word but it will be at some point. But it might just be that one thing that will literally save them 20 hours a week. And I’m over here like, yeah, do 10 things, and then everyone gets overwhelmed. We’re all fumbling through it and hoping for the best right now, because no one came out knowing how to use this stuff.

Dahna Borg – Bright Red Marketing (05:30)

Yeah, for sure. There are a lot of different tools out there at the moment. If someone’s identified a problem — and obviously it’s going to be very problem-dependent — are there particular tools you recommend people start with? What are your thoughts around that?

Em Gee (05:46)

So again, we think about tools as the path to the solution rather than the actual solution. It’s like — what’s the problem, what solution do you want, and then think about the tool. But generally speaking, I always recommend that everyone nails how to use a particular LLM. Now let me explain what that is, because I want people to know what LLM means. It’s the education we all now need as we go into this new world, because it’s not just our work that’s changing — it’s everything. LLM stands for large language model. That’s what ChatGPT is, that’s what Claude is, that’s what Grok is, that’s what DeepSeek is. They’re large language models, and what it means ultimately is that behind that model is a heap of language, a heap of words that it’s trained on, and all of that data gives the output. In layman’s terms, that’s what it is.

Most people — more than 90% — are not using LLMs as well as they could be. The example I gave earlier was that we try something, we don’t get a result, and we throw it in the bin. Or we might try a little bit harder because it’s being rammed down our throats, but we’re still not getting a great result. I work with women who have been using AI since ChatGPT launched and they still come into a session with me and there’s some extra way they could put it into their workflow that they hadn’t even thought of — partly because the functions have changed so much, but there’s always more you could be doing.

The way I like to think of it now, and I do this with my team as well, is that for every single task in my business, there could be an element of AI. So whenever we go to do something, we ask first: how could AI be a part of this process to speed it up? I think that’s going to become something every single person needs to do in their job, in their workplace, with their team — because it’s changing the way we think about how we work, and that’s how we get a better return on our time and investment in it.

So the answer to the question is: large language models. Learn to use whichever one is your favourite. You could switch between them all if you want to, but just learn one. Because every time you switch you get lag. Pick one, master it, and what you learn from mastering that one will transfer into other platforms as well.

Dahna Borg – Bright Red Marketing (08:46)

Yeah, I will say I have just switched to Claude because ChatGPT was annoying me.

Em Gee (08:51)

And it’s a massive move. If I was picking just one large language model right now, I would pick Claude. Should I explain why?

Dahna Borg – Bright Red Marketing (08:59)

Yeah — the stuff that Claude’s been able to do… you definitely should, because I’m a massive Claude convert.

Em Gee (09:05)

So the big reason there’s been a shift in just the last couple of weeks is because of some political reasons, which makes sense. There was essentially a situation where OpenAI gave the US military access to things that it really shouldn’t have, and Claude said no. People are acting with their money, which is great, and it did make OpenAI go back and change what they were doing. I could go down that rabbit hole but I won’t. What we can tell from Claude though is that it has better ethics — I would argue we might not know all the details on that — but in terms of usability, there is so much functionality with Claude. Not just to write captions and content and written outputs, but to actually do things for you in your business and become like a literal coworker. That’s part of their program — Cowork. It can create websites too. You must be looking at that and going, holy — the websites it can build are so amazing.

Dahna Borg – Bright Red Marketing (10:19)

I’m very behind with a lot of the AI stuff because we’re so busy with other parts of our business at the moment. But I dabbled with the Cowork thing the other day and I’m on two screens, and one of my screens is just working on its own. This is wild — this is no longer just thinking, it’s actually doing. It capped out of its usage in like 10 minutes flat and I was like, the potential here is insane.

Em Gee (10:36)

Yes! And that’s the other thing to consider about Claude as well, something I’m mindful of with small businesses in particular — your overheads. You really need to be paying for the $100 a month option, not the $20 one. And this also comes back to the ethical code of practice they have, which is that the more we’re using these AI models, the more environmental impact it has. So they’re charging more per use to encourage you to be more specific in the way you’re interacting with it, so you’re not using as many tokens — which is how it uses energy. So you do have to budget for more if you’re going to use Claude.

Dahna Borg – Bright Red Marketing (11:18)

Be mindful. Yeah. But also if it’s actually doing things rather than me having to do things, I’m here for it.

Em Gee (11:30)

Right — for me it’s like, if it’s $100 a month and it’s doing even just two hours of work for me in a month, which is well and truly beyond that, then it’s worth it. It’s weighing those things up.

Dahna Borg – Bright Red Marketing (11:43)

Yeah, 100%. Where do you see brands getting the biggest wins with AI, specifically on the marketing side of things? Are there tasks or processes or tools where you see the most opportunity — things people can go, oh, I haven’t thought about that but that is a problem of mine?

Em Gee (12:05)

I would say research, research outreach, and developing overall strategy based on that is huge for small business. Small businesses get bogged down in the day-to-day, we get stuck working in our business rather than on it, and we can completely neglect the opportunities out there for growth because we don’t have time to work on them. You can set up Claude with a scheduled task — and you can do this in ChatGPT as well — that does weekly research into trends, what’s happening, opportunities, and then even starts to draft personalised emails to the right people to start those connections and that process.

Without getting into the connectors and MCPs — anybody listening who hasn’t heard of that is going to be like, another acronym, calm down — that’s basically just how it does stuff for you. But it’s a really simple and effective place to start.

In terms of marketing, insights are huge. Having something like Claude be able to look at — especially with eComm — what are people clicking on? I think Shopify now has some really good data in there, and you can connect Shopify to Claude and get it to pull all of that information and tell you, hey, this is where your marketing should be focusing, this messaging was working really well and this wasn’t — to help you direct your strategy rather than just going, write me a piece of content.

And the last one — I know eComm businesses are often using Meta Ads and Google Ads as well — and being able to use AI from the most basic standpoint of downloading the CSV from your Meta Ads or Google Ads, putting it into ChatGPT and saying, help me optimise these. So it looks at the data without you having to look at the data yourself. Or if you look at it and you’re like, this hurts my brain.

Dahna Borg – Bright Red Marketing (14:42)

Yeah. So we do some coaching as well as client work — obviously we are Meta Ads people. And it’s really interesting the results you get from that. I find it’s still very hit and miss as to whether that’s actually going to work for your business, so it’s interesting to see how that plays out. I would say it’s better for spotting problems and things that should be turned off more so than overall strategy. But we dabbled with it the other day and pulled some data from one of my accounts and it spotted some things we would never have spotted because we never have time to go to that absolute granular detail. So it’s very interesting.

Em Gee (15:25)

Right. And I think the thing is, you need to know what you’re looking at to know what to look for — if that makes sense. But if you’re doing your own ads and you’re already in that process, then it makes sense.

I think with ads, you don’t know what you don’t know. So if you don’t understand ads, then trying to use AI for ads is probably not actually that helpful, because then you’re just giving AI information and hoping for the best. This is the thing about business — we do actually need to know a little bit about everything unless we’re outsourcing it. Otherwise you have no idea what you’re asking it to do. And AI will replicate what you do, and if what you’re doing is not good, well then — what’s the point?

Dahna Borg – Bright Red Marketing (16:14)

That is 100% spot on because I think that applies for everything. If you’re asking AI to do your organic marketing outreach but you don’t know how to outreach people in a way that sounds human and is interesting, it’s going to deliver you something rubbish but you won’t know any better, so you’ll send it. If you’re going to ask it to do SEO for you but you don’t know how to do SEO, you’re just going to take it without knowing whether that’s actually good for your business. Same with ads.

If you don’t know how to run ads and it just gives you something to do — one of the women in a coaching program I was running got distracted in ChatGPT and it told her to do this thing, and I’m like, I have never in all my 16 years of doing this heard anyone suggest that as a strategy. And because she didn’t know, and there was a little gap between some calls, she just went and did it. So I think the most relevant point is: if you don’t know what you don’t know, you’re just going to take it at its word. Even from a copywriting standpoint — if you don’t know what good copy is, it’s hard to get it to produce good copy. And that sort of leads perfectly into my next point — where do you think human judgment is still needed to lead this?

Em Gee (17:23)

Yeah, absolutely.

Dahna Borg – Bright Red Marketing (17:37)

Because obviously we can use AI for a lot of things. Where do you see that distinction between really needing that human judgment and input versus letting AI take over some of these things?

Em Gee (17:49)

This is where it’s going — working together with AI. But we do need to get that balance right, and right now most people, most businesses, even large organisations are not getting that balance right because it’s the messy middle of it. And it’s okay that everyone is in that messy middle — you’ll learn things.

For me, I think right now — and this is open to change — when you’re using AI for something written, so the input-output kind of AI versus getting it to do things for you, it’s 10% of you at the beginning making sure that 100% of you is in that 10%, if that makes sense. You give 100% in the first 10% of the process because you need to give it really good information. If you don’t give it really good information in that first 10%, the rest of the 90% is going to be off no matter what. Then after you’ve given it good information — and maybe that’s something we can talk about, how you give it good information — 80% ideally, once you’ve trained it well, will be done by AI. And then there’s another 10% at the end that is the human.

So in my course, I never teach anyone to automate content. There are maybe a few very small cases where it might be automated as a repurposing thing, but otherwise there needs to be a human. It’s called human in the loop in AI world — where you check over it — because this is your brand and your business. If you don’t read through it and check that it sounds like you, that it represents your brand values and so on, that could be detrimental to your brand.

Em Gee (19:43)

And as simple as this — when you’re starting to use these large language models to write things on your behalf, read it out loud in that last 10%. Because when you read it out loud there’ll be a word where you’re like, I don’t say that. You have that visceral reaction. Mine are so well trained out now, but if it says something like “unlock your potential” — you know.

Dahna Borg – Bright Red Marketing (20:08)

You just get the ick. You’re like, no, we don’t do that.

Em Gee (20:11)

Exactly. And I also think it’s about training people in your team to do that same thing — we still need to use our brain. Because that’s also a concern. I went on a flight recently and I didn’t have Wi-Fi, and I was like, I can’t get any work done because I can’t access AI. And that’s a bit of a red flag.

Dahna Borg – Bright Red Marketing (20:32)

Yes. Just as much.

Em Gee (20:32)

Because it means I just didn’t want to use my brain. AI would do it so much quicker — but we’re going to have to work out, if we care about our brains, how we navigate that. But that’s a whole other subject.

Dahna Borg – Bright Red Marketing (20:44)

Very much so. This is why I want to do more podcasts on this — it’s a very interesting conversation. I think it’d be really interesting to have this conversation again in six months or 12 months and see how much has changed, because we’re definitely moving into a space where more people are using it. More people are very anti-AI completely, and I’m slightly worried for some of those people in some spaces because I’m just like, good luck. But it’s very much about that balance. We talk about it a lot internally — we don’t use a lot of AI in our business for client-facing work at this stage, that may change. A lot of it is back-end processes and things. But it’s a really interesting conversation because we look at it and go, well, if it does go the way we think it’s going to go, these giant chunks of what we do are going to be taken over by AI. So what’s going to make us different, what’s going to make us relevant, and how do we present that to people? That we’re still worth what we do when they think AI can do these big chunks. But I think it is that human element — the strategy, the thinking things through — that’s what’s actually going to make us different, because everyone’s using AI and it’s all going to come out the same.

Em Gee (21:54)

And I think you’ve made a really good point there, because people will think they can get AI to do the things that you do, but then they’ll go and get AI to do those things and go, that was rubbish — because they didn’t know how to train it to do that thing well, or to ask the right questions. With marketing, if you’re working with a brand that sells a product, you’ve got to be able to ask them questions to get the right information. And because AI likes to please — which is why the person in your program had that experience, because ChatGPT just wants to go, yes, we’ve got the solution — it’s just giving a random, maybe not-that-helpful solution. So having human oversight actually becomes even more important than ever, because now online, AI is eating AI. There’s more AI content online than there is human content because it’s been able to 10x the volume, and so it’s eating itself essentially, which becomes a problem.

And the other thing that I think is going to be important now and into the future is for each person in the team of an organisation to have ownership over the AI tasks. We all become managers of AI in a way. That’s what I’ve been sharing with my team recently — in the next six months, what you’ll all be doing is managing AI to do your tasks. We’re getting really granular on our SOPs because they’re going to hand those over to an AI agent. That doesn’t mean I’m firing my team, but it means they’re in charge of those processes as the human in the loop — to make sure it’s trained well, it’s doing the right thing, and if it breaks, what do we do? I don’t want to fix all of those things, because the amount of things we have happening in the background is just insane. But we can have all of those things happening in our organisation because it’s not all humans doing it. So we get to expand. I had a meeting with my assistant this morning and she’s just excited about all of the expansive new things she’s going to get to do because she doesn’t have to do the boring, tedious stuff — she’s building AI to do it.

Dahna Borg – Bright Red Marketing (24:28)

It’s the grunt stuff that… yeah.

Dahna Borg – Bright Red Marketing (24:42)

I think it’s going to be really interesting. If you’re smart and you know what you’re doing and you can do that big-picture thinking, it just gives you the ability to do so much more.

Em Gee (24:51) It’s like the development of any technology really — it just allows us to be more productive. And hopefully long term, I don’t know what this looks like politically, but hopefully we can work fewer hours and not get paid less. For us in business it’s great because we can work fewer hours and hopefully still have the same output. But obviously not everyone’s in business, and there are economic, worldwide things to consider. I don’t know what that’s going to look like, but I think people burying their heads in the sand are going to get whiplash pretty soon, if they haven’t already. There’s maybe a bit of ego involved too — like, nothing can do the job the way I can do it, right?

Dahna Borg – Bright Red Marketing (25:26)

Yeah, I’m scared for some people.

Em Gee (25:40)

It can’t yet. And there does need to be a human in there. But we’re going to need to learn to work with it, just like we learned to work with the internet. Imagine if someone came into your workplace and said, I will only use the fax machine.

Dahna Borg – Bright Red Marketing (25:53)

Yeah, it’s like, bye. That doesn’t work anymore. And I think it’s been interesting. We should definitely do this again in a year and see what’s changed. Honestly, in the last five weeks things have changed so drastically. Let’s keep in the loop on this. You touched on something before around teaching it to sound like you.

Em Gee (25:58)

Yeah, even six months will be different.

Dahna Borg – Bright Red Marketing (26:20)

What are some of your best tips for actually getting it to do that? Because I know that’s something a lot of people really struggle with — how to teach it to be more human.

Em Gee (26:27)

Okay. So there are two parts to training an AI model, whether you’re using ChatGPT, Claude, whatever you’re using — and those two parts are instructions and knowledge base. The way I like to describe this is imagine you’re hiring someone. Whether you’ve hired someone before or you’ve been through a hiring process yourself, you give them a job description and then you give them information about your business that they need to know in order to do the job well. So if you were actually hiring a content writing assistant or a social media manager or a marketing assistant, you’d have a job description saying, these are the types of tasks I want you to do — and you’d give them information about what you want them to do.

Then you’d give them what I remember from my first job at Bunnings Warehouse — I got this lever arch file. I had to work in the tool shop, so I had to go and learn about all the tools in my own time. And then go back and stand at the tool shop counter and talk to grown men who didn’t believe I knew a thing about tools. But I had my file! Anyway, that lever arch file is like your knowledge base — things you need to know in order to do the job well. So in your large language model, you need to give it that knowledge base.

If you’re in ChatGPT — and we’ll talk about the free version so it’s easy for everyone — no matter what version you’ve got, you’ve got project folders in ChatGPT and same in Claude. When you go into those project folders, you can add instructions and files. Instructions is the job description. Files are things like a document full of copy that you’ve written yourself — not your AI-written copy — maybe 10 examples of different types of content. Maybe you create a project folder that is specific to writing product descriptions. The instructions are: you write product descriptions for my business, this is what we sell, and so on. In the knowledge base, examples of all your product descriptions — copy and paste them into a document, put it in there. And then that project can write future product descriptions in the exact same way you write yours, based on the examples. And that is literally everything you need to know to get started with training it really well.

The next step — and I’ll share this in case anyone’s already up to that level — is when you’re talking to it and it’s not saying things the way you would say them, take exactly what it’s written, rewrite it the way you would write it, and then give it back in the same conversation and say, hey, this is how I rewrote this. Can you analyse the difference between the two and give me instructions I can use to make you sound more like me? Then take those instructions and put them into the instructions of the project folder. I feel like I almost need to draw a diagram for this right now.

Dahna Borg – Bright Red Marketing (30:18)

I feel like that’s very clear.

Em Gee (30:21)

Good. Put those instructions in — and you know how AI is doing this thing right now where it writes: know this. Know that. Know — like it’s three “know”s, full stop, next line? It’s doing that all the time at the moment. So I’ve had to go, no writing like this, do it this way, and put that in the instructions. But then in six months it’ll be doing something different and I’ll have to change those instructions because things keep updating.

Dahna Borg – Bright Red Marketing (30:35)

Yeah. It’s a constant process. It comes up with weird grammar rules every now and then. You’re like, “No one?” No. Let’s not do that.

Em Gee (30:54)

See, I’m terrible with grammar anyway — I actually have no idea if the grammar is right. I’m just like, yep.

Dahna Borg – Bright Red Marketing (31:01)

I’m a little bit of a grammar nerd, so then it will do things and I’m like, no, that’s too grammar-nerdy, don’t do that. Because now I feel like you sound like AI because you’ve used things I would not normally use. And I have some weird grammar quirks so I want it to use my grammar quirks so it still sounds like I wrote it. But that’s the step I’ve been missing — I just expect it to remember that in the conversation, not going back and adding it into the instructions. So that’s a really good tip.

Em Gee (31:09)

Because it’s too massive. Yes, and it’s constant feedback, because they are updating models all the time as well. If they update the model, that essentially changes the way the AI is thinking. So you could go in the day they change the model, have the same conversation you had the day before, and the output is like, what, where is this going? It’s gone on a completely different tangent. So sometimes — which is again annoying — you’ve got to go in and say, based on your recent update, how should I be changing my instructions so that they match the way you think? And then go and change your instructions.

Dahna Borg – Bright Red Marketing (32:02)

If anyone’s listening to this and they’re like, I want to start doing this — what’s the thing you’d recommend they start with first? What’s something they can actually go and do based off this conversation? And I know what you’re going to say because we started with it, but maybe two things.

Em Gee (32:16)

Yeah, sometimes you need things reiterated. The first thing is nailing that large language model — whichever one you’re using right now, don’t try and switch it up. Just pick the one you’re using and go and set up those project folders so that you can experiment with it. Maybe even set aside an hour a week to go in and just play without expectation, because a lot of it is just learning from playing and seeing what it comes up with. If you’re trying to get something done that would usually take you an hour and you want to use AI to get it done in 20 minutes, but then it takes you more than an hour, you’re going to feel like you’ve wasted that time. So when you’re just getting in there and seeing what happens, try not to have that pressure.

And I want to add another one — this is something I think is awesome to do, especially if you’re not sure what you could be using AI for. If you’re already talking to AI a bit about your business, you’ve got an account, you’ve shared a bit but haven’t used it for a lot — go in there and just say, based on what you know about my business, how could I be using AI better? And if you’ve given it some context throughout the time you’ve been using it, which most of us have even if we’re not the best user of it, then it looks through the context of your conversations and says, here are some ways you could be using it.

Dahna Borg – Bright Red Marketing (33:40)

I love that, I think that’s a great tip. And on that note, if people want to find you, learn more from you, learn more about your course — what’s the best way for people to reach out?

Em Gee (33:50)

Come and find me on Instagram, that’s probably the best place. It’s @therealmg, and I’m sure you can put the link somewhere in the show notes. In my bio I’ve got a starter pack — I try to only have one freebie at a time, but I have got a starter pack which has a bunch of starter resources for free. It talks you through a few things in ChatGPT, like creating those knowledge bases, and gives you my list of tools that I use and what I use them for. There are three parts to it and I can’t remember what the third part is — let’s call it a bonus secret thing you’ve got to go and find out. And if for whatever reason you can’t find it, just send me a DM on Instagram, because it depends on what I’m focusing on promoting as my freebie at the time.

Dahna Borg – Bright Red Marketing (34:32)

Surprise — go download it and you’ll find it. That is very fair. And then a couple of questions we ask everyone just to finish up. What is your favourite business book or podcast?

Em Gee (34:52)

My favourite business book would be Rocket Fuel, which is really about a team and how to be the visionary and let go of the integration of things. And for podcast — I would have said six months ago Diary of a CEO, not so much anymore. Probably Tim and Steph Frey. I mean, I’m in their coaching program and a lot of it is relevant to the conversations we’re already having. Sometimes just rehashing things is really helpful, and while I get a lot of that from their program, I love listening to them talk on their podcast too.

Dahna Borg – Bright Red Marketing (35:27)

Yeah, wonderful. And what’s the best piece of business advice you’ve ever received?

Em Gee (35:35)

Celebrate the wins. I don’t think we celebrate the wins enough. And it’s been a thread for me throughout my entire 10 years in business. I would have been told it ages ago, but you know how you hear something when you’re ready to hear it properly? In the last couple of years it’s like, actually celebrate the wins. It doesn’t have to be like, let’s go for champagne. It’s just, take a moment to sit down and go, wow, I did that. Or look at how far I’ve come. Breathe into it, write it down, share it with someone — celebrate it in some way.

Dahna Borg – Bright Red Marketing (36:13)

I definitely need to hear that myself because I am terrible at it. So thank you for the good advice!

Em Gee (36:17)

And I think it’s also a female thing, right? And potentially a down-under thing — tall poppy, you know, we’re just like, keep going, keep going. We don’t need a jazz hands about it, but do the jazz hands.

Dahna Borg – Bright Red Marketing (36:31)

I saw a quote once that was like, I don’t celebrate my wins because I just sort of expected that I was going to do them. And that one hurt. But yeah, I should still celebrate it though.

Em Gee (36:37)

Yes, exactly. We should still celebrate it, but it’s like we’re ambitious. So we’re like, next, what’s the next thing — and forget to take the moment to go, wow, that was cool.

Dahna Borg – Bright Red Marketing (36:50)

Yeah. Thank you so much for joining us, an absolute pleasure having you on the show.

Em Gee (36:56)

Thank you so much for having me.

Dahna Borg – Bright Red Marketing (36:57)

Thank you for listening to the Bright Minds of eCommerce podcast. As always, you can find the show notes on our website at brightredmarketing.com.au — just look for the podcast page. Thanks for listening.