What nobody tells eCommerce brands about working with influencers with Nikki Parkinson

Nikki Parkinson – Styling You (00:00)

When you’re doing your early research about which brands or content creators you think will be in alignment with you, part of that alignment is really liking how they’re doing their content, because you really don’t want to come in and tell them to do it differently from what they’ve been doing. Otherwise you’re booking the wrong person.

Dahna Borg – Bright Red Marketing (00:20)

Hi and welcome to the Bright Minds of eCommerce podcast. I’m Dahna, founder of Bright Red Marketing, and I created this podcast because I wanted to bring you the best advice from Australian experts in eCommerce and eCommerce store owners. If you’re wanting relatable stories and actionable advice, as well as the latest Facebook advertising strategies, you’re in the right place. So let’s get into today’s episode.

Dahna Borg – Bright Red Marketing (00:40)

Welcome to the Bright Minds of eCommerce podcast. Today we’re here with Nikki Parkinson from Styling You. Welcome, it’s so good to have you on the show. Can you give us a little bit of a background on your influencer career?

Nikki Parkinson – Styling You (00:45)

Great to be here. Well, I’m what you call a dinosaur. We’re not extinct, but I started as a blogger almost 18 years ago. There is still a handful of us around in Australia who were doing that 18 years ago and are still doing it in some way, shape or form. But I have seen every change, every platform arrival, every algorithm. Well, they weren’t algorithms back then, but the arrival of algorithms, the rise of the content creator, the influencer. It all came from blogging.

Dahna Borg – Bright Red Marketing (01:25)

As you mentioned, no one’s really had a front row seat to this quite like you have. What are some of the biggest things you’ve seen change in the industry in that time?

Nikki Parkinson – Styling You (01:30)

I think overall, and I’m going to be very general here, there is an understanding now that this is a position you can work and earn money from. Back in 2008, I got a lot of very strange looks. I mean, I still do. People don’t know how I’m filling my day. But you can imagine being at a family gathering trying to explain what you were doing as part of your business. There’s more of a front row seat to that now. More people are on the apps and they’re aware of what a content creator is, even if they don’t really understand how that person might fill their day or their week.

Dahna Borg – Bright Red Marketing (02:11)

That would have been a really weird conversation to have back in the day. People don’t fully get it now, but it’s accepted that there are people who earn their living that way. Back then it would have been like, “What do you do?”

Nikki Parkinson – Styling You (02:25)

Exactly! And I’d been a journalist, so everyone understood that. Then I remember, I don’t know what year it was, probably 2009 or 2010, there was an article about me in one of the papers and a relative went, “Oh my goodness, I read that!” And I’m thinking, what do you think I’ve been doing?

Dahna Borg – Bright Red Marketing (02:58)

I feel like everyone sort of underestimates us when we start new things. I remember when I started my business, people were like, “Oh, cute.” And I’m like, no, I have a team, I manage millions. But okay, cool, cute. Fine. I’ll do my thing.

Nikki Parkinson – Styling You (03:04)

Cute! Yes. And honestly, on the flip side of that, there are still people who don’t really understand what I do and how this is a business, how I fill my day. I think they have this illusion that I’m just sitting around having a coffee or something.

Dahna Borg – Bright Red Marketing (03:17)

I mean, that’s definitely what you do. I’ve seen the work you’ve produced for our clients. How do you think brands’ approach to what you do has changed in that time?

Nikki Parkinson – Styling You (03:30)

Well, if we go back, I used to get booked by brands for content on my blog. That was the chief thing. The Instagram post would have been a photo and was a bit of a bonus, but the blog was the main vehicle. Which, to be fair, more brands should get across, because the SEO on my blog is pretty good. But it’s not what they’re booking you for now. Back then it would always involve a photo shoot and writing, which wasn’t too far an extension from my previous career. They were wanting to connect with your audience, but the vehicle was the blog. And I’ve always had my database, which has always been, and still is, such a great asset to have because I own it. The message, what I’m showcasing, we’re just doing it in a different way, a decade or more on.

Dahna Borg – Bright Red Marketing (04:31)

The SEO is underrated. What is it that makes you really excited to work with a brand?

Nikki Parkinson – Styling You (04:44)

Let’s start with the overall ideal. The ideal client is a brand I’ve already purchased from and use. That’s the super ideal, whatever niche you’re talking about. It feels like I’m the friend who is always sending links. We’ve caught up on a walk or a chat and later I’m sending all the links. If it’s something I’m really across and love already, it’s just so easy. And if I want to niche it down into fashion, which is probably the biggest demand, it has to align with my personal style. That comes back to the brand as well. Contact me because you think we’re a match. Your beautiful, colourful dresses might not be my everyday style. That’s my holiday wardrobe. Sometimes that can tie in, but overall, if your brand aligns with my personal style, I’ve got more chance of selling it for you, because people are seeing my posts because that’s what they’re looking for.

I’ve also got values around fast fashion. That’s not what I’m interested in being a part of. There are plenty of other people who can do that. No judgment on the consumer, but I’m sticking with my own values. And I have such a soft spot for independent brands. They don’t necessarily have a big budget, but I find ways to work with them from a PR perspective. It really comes down to alignment. For me it’s personal, but it’s also just how I can sell. My job, if a brand partners with me, is to sell what they’re selling. If there’s no connection, it’s going to fall flat. It’s not like putting a model in clothes for your website, where they’re literally just showcasing the garments. It’s more like: if you generally like what I wear, you might like what I’m showing you.

Dahna Borg – Bright Red Marketing (06:58)

I love that. If a brand is listening, and let’s talk about influencers in general rather than just you, what would be a checklist of things they should go through to make sure the influencers they’re looking at are a good fit?

Nikki Parkinson – Styling You (07:13)

Really look at their feed. Don’t just send a message saying, “We think you’d look lovely in our clothes,” and then I click through thinking, have you actually looked at my feed and seen what I wear organically, or the brands I’ve already worked with? Your clothes are lovely, but that’s not my style. Have a look, and maybe start having a conversation in the comments on different posts, without being spammy. Just start building a relationship. Some of the brands I’ve worked with over many years have started as part of a conversation, not just a cold approach. That’s really important.

Also think about the demographic you’re trying to reach. If a brand is solely looking for women over 40, then really find influencers and creators in that age group and demographic, including geographic. Ask for screenshots of insights, because there’s no use booking someone with 500,000 followers if you’re only selling in Australia and they’ve got a 2% Australian audience. And if they don’t want to supply screenshots, run. Red flag.

When I had my label, I had someone proactively reach out to me with a very fancy media kit and the numbers just weren’t adding up. I’ve been in this game for a while and I could tell there was a bit of follower purchasing going on. I asked for the screenshots and never heard from them again. We know what that means. People can buy likes, views, whatever they want. It just creates a vanity metric that you need to dig deeper on. The numbers aren’t necessarily the whole picture. And it doesn’t have to be someone with a massive following. If you can see high engagement on someone with 10,000 followers and you can see that it’s working, that’s really where it’s at. It’s about finding the right people who match the values of your brand.

Dahna Borg – Bright Red Marketing (09:51)

I 100% agree. We’ve worked with you and a number of other influencers, including micro creators, and sometimes the best results have come from the smaller followings. Clients come to us and say, “We want this person, they’ve got five million followers.” And I’m like, no, you’re going to get a much better result going with someone like Nikki, or someone with 10,000 followers who’s newer and coming up, but they are so your person it’s not even funny.

Nikki Parkinson – Styling You (10:27)

Yeah. And I’d say a small, very select group. Part of the process is finding those people, and that’s not easy, but putting the time in at that point gives you a payoff that’s way better than a scattergun approach.

Dahna Borg – Bright Red Marketing (10:35)

Agreed. I also find people expect to work with one influencer and have it be game-changing. Whereas, and I know you and I have had this conversation before, the best results come from partnering with someone long term, trialling a couple of people, seeing who’s your fit, who you get the best results from, and who you can develop that relationship with. You’re building a partnership. These people almost become part of the team.

Nikki Parkinson – Styling You (11:29)

Yeah. And that also helps mitigate against a one-off post not quite doing everything you hoped. If there’s continual seeding, there’s a brand association that builds. I’m also very conscious, even when it’s not in the contract, of making sure there’s a spread between similar brands. I won’t post for two competing brands back to back, because that feels fake. I’m very particular about who I say yes to, when I say yes, and what the timeframe is between what I’ve got booked. I do have exclusive arrangements with some clients, which is really great. FRANKiE4 is the one I’ve been working with for about 13 years now, exclusively for over a decade. It’s a constant seeding. Agreed content each season, but constant brand association.

Dahna Borg – Bright Red Marketing (12:38)

Amazing. And they wouldn’t keep booking you if it wasn’t working!

What I really love about your content, and something we speak to clients about when they’re looking for people to partner with, is that yes, you’re partnering with brands, yes, you’re selling things, that’s your job. But people follow you because they trust you and you’re genuinely giving advice. It’s not just a sales post every time. I think there’s a bit of a rise in influencers where every post is a sales pitch and there’s not much value beyond that. Your history and where you’ve come from has helped you build something where people follow you for you, and then trust what you’re selling. So the only thing I’d add around picking the right person is: make sure their content is genuinely interesting, not just a pitch from a different brand every other day.

Nikki Parkinson – Styling You (13:37)

Yes. Coming from journalism, I’ve always thought the information should be helpful regardless of whether you end up buying the product I’m talking about. I spend a lot of time pre-preparing content. I still do everything myself: shooting, editing, everything. I really take the time because I want this to perform as well for the client as it does for my organic content. I treat both the same way. It’s about making sure I’m adding value to the people who might be served this content and stick around if they like what they see.

Now that I’m in my late 50s, it’s also about showing up and showing that life just continues. We want to keep doing all the things that gave us a vibrant life in our earlier years, and we’re still doing it now. That’s part of why I’ve always shown up personally as well as for brands. Not everything is shared, but how do you build connection without showing a little bit of yourself? And I think that’s why we’ve seen the rise of founder content and employee content too, because in this tough retail climate, people buy from people. They always have. It’s about creating that connection you’d otherwise have by going in-store. People want to see the backstory. They want the real people behind it.

Dahna Borg – Bright Red Marketing (15:13)

Especially with the rise of AI, people like yourself who’ve been in it a long time, who share things and are genuinely human, you’re educating, you’re showing the messy behind-the-scenes. People are going to want that. Things are going to get very polished and perfect, and there’s a time and place for that, but I think people really value seeing real people and having that genuine connection. I think that connection piece is going to be really interesting in the next couple of years. It’s going to make and break people.

Nikki Parkinson – Styling You (15:59)

It’s going to push people off the apps, or they’ll literally try to make their algorithm only show them real people. I feel like we’ll have so much AI in every other part of our lives that we won’t want it when we pick up our phones for recreation.

Dahna Borg – Bright Red Marketing (16:01)

Yeah. I’m really interested to see how it plays out. Obviously this is my career, and to an extent it’s yours too, so it’s going to be very interesting to watch. I think we’re going to go back to wanting in-person meetings, not being on our phones, wanting some humanity back.

Nikki Parkinson – Styling You (16:24)

Yes. Just this morning I saw a post from a media company introducing their team, and this post was introducing three or four AI members. The comments were not happy. I was watching and thinking, is this clever or is it not? And no, they want real people. They’re not going to take makeup advice from an AI persona.

Dahna Borg – Bright Red Marketing (17:05)

Yeah. It’s like Zara had their campaign launch with AI models and everyone went nuts. It’s going to be very interesting.

What do you think eCommerce brands misunderstand about a relationship with someone like yourself for marketing their business?

Nikki Parkinson – Styling You (17:25)

I wouldn’t say it’s just about me. If you want to engage with content creators, it’s about doing that digging to find people who might be a match and starting to build a relationship. And just quickly on outreach: only DM someone for their email address if it’s not in their bio. Otherwise, please just email. If a DM lands when I’m distracted doing something else, it gets lost. So there’s that.

Then it’s about what you can offer in terms of budget or gifting, and there’s nothing wrong with going in and saying, “We’re a small business working with gifted collaborations at the moment. Is that something you’re open to?” With the right creator, regardless of their size, if they feel a connection with the brand they might be happy to do something. But a gifted collaboration is PR, and content creators should do the right thing and not accept a gift if they don’t think they’ll post anything. That’s my belief.

For small businesses: build a relationship and make contact before sending product. You have to set your expectations too. You can’t specify “in exchange for a post” or “in exchange for three reels” if you’ve got a $50 product. The content creator is going to include it in their editorial content, not create something specific just for you. That’s very much the media landscape way. You have to be okay with that. Generally, I won’t accept product without knowing I can do something with it, that it fits my editorial content and belongs somewhere.

Dahna Borg – Bright Red Marketing (19:26)

I think it’s really good for small businesses to know that’s an option. A lot of them go, “I wouldn’t want to offend you by reaching out with something like that.” But if it’s a small brand that’s very aligned with what you do, it’s worth asking the question.

Nikki Parkinson – Styling You (19:39)

Yes, but you have to be okay with no. There are certain times in the retail calendar where I’m at capacity with paid engagements. Not Black Friday, not Christmas. It’s not happening. But for micro creators, that’s where going in with a smaller budget can work really well.

And that’s where I think the rise of the UGC creator is a really good thing. I personally don’t do straight UGC content, because even if it’s not on my platform, if it’s in ads, it’s reaching my audience and they don’t know it’s paid. But it is paid. So I don’t do it. What I do offer is paid usage on content that has already appeared on my platforms. But that’s just my individual approach. Others do straight UGC as well.

Another really great way to start building a relationship with an influencer who’s aligned with and excited by your brand is affiliate marketing. There are enough platforms around now that you could set that up. I did this with a suitcase brand a couple of years ago. I’d actually bought their suitcases and done a lot of research, and I thought, I’m about to do a post about these and I think it’s going to go gangbusters. So I contacted them and said, “Hey, would you be open to a partnership?” They came back with rates lower than my standard paid content rates, so I suggested an affiliate arrangement instead. We agreed on a discount code for my followers and I get affiliate commission. It’s been a win-win. We’re almost two years in on that relationship and I can actually see how much I’ve sold for them, and they didn’t have to take a chance on me.

Dahna Borg – Bright Red Marketing (21:37)

Amazing. That’s a little less risky, especially for brands who haven’t used influencers before.

Nikki Parkinson – Styling You (21:51)

Exactly. And if you can do that, it’s a really good way to see whether the alignment between that creator and their audience is going to be a match.

Dahna Borg – Bright Red Marketing (22:06)

I love that. You touched on ads, and obviously you and I have worked together for a couple of different clients over the years using your content in ads. What are your thoughts on that? Because you’ve very successfully built your platform doing organic content for brands. Where do you sit on how valuable paid amplification is?

Nikki Parkinson – Styling You (22:08)

I am so for it. If you’re booking me for one reel, book usage as well and amplify it. At the moment, partnership ads via a reel on Instagram are probably your best bet. And if you’re going to do that, go in with that budget in mind from the start. Even if you come back to it later, you can still add usage on if the content is still relevant to what you’re selling. Having been on both sides, because I used to run my own ads for my label, it will get you cut through. Cutting through in ads is the same challenge as cutting through the regular algorithm. So if the content performs well organically, it’s going to have a better chance of converting in ads too.

Dahna Borg – Bright Red Marketing (23:04)

Different battles, same battles. We’ve even had influencers, not you, who haven’t performed all that well on their own platforms, and we’ve put some money behind the content in ads and it’s been a top performer. More than enough to justify the investment. So I’m firmly in the camp of: if you can get usage rights, get them. The diversity of faces, bodies, personalities, and talking-head content you get through creators, rather than needing full model shoots, is just invaluable. And it’s why we still work with you and recommend you to our clients.

Nikki Parkinson – Styling You (23:46)

Yeah. And those ads are going to reach people that even the most beautifully produced campaign content won’t necessarily reach. You need a bit of both in the mix.

Dahna Borg – Bright Red Marketing (24:10)

100%. We’ve actually convinced two or three clients now to go very heavy on their influencer strategy, and they’re dialling back their professional shoots, because all they need the professional shoots for is wholesale and on-site eCommerce photography. All the content that actually performs is from content creators and influencers.

Nikki Parkinson – Styling You (24:28)

And that content needs to be turned around a lot quicker too. You’ve got to be a bit more nimble.

Dahna Borg – Bright Red Marketing (24:46)

100%. And it’s also really helpful at end of season when you’ve got stock left and didn’t quite get great photos of it the first time around. Sending some pieces to someone like yourself, or a smaller creator, is a really great way to extend that content and help you sell through towards the end of the season.

Nikki Parkinson – Styling You (24:54)

Yeah, I’d agree. That’s definitely the way to go.

Dahna Borg – Bright Red Marketing (25:08)

How do you find the best brand relationships get built? You’ve spoken a little about this, the reaching out via DMs and those sorts of things, but are there things that brands do that really help build that relationship and create a long-term partnership?

Nikki Parkinson – Styling You (25:23)

When you’re doing your early research about which content creators you think will be in alignment with you, part of that alignment is really liking how they’re doing their content, because you really don’t want to come in and tell them to do it differently from what they’ve been doing. If they’re not doing it the way you want, you need to find someone else. You’ve got to trust the creativity. There’s a lot of trust involved on both sides, and you want to do the right thing by the brand. In turn, the brand should give you a good brief. It doesn’t have to be 16 pages, but it should cover the key things you want followers to know about you or the specific thing you’re selling. And like any relationship, good communication on both sides is essential. Professionalism on both sides is essential. How do you build any business relationship? Both parties being fair and honest and doing the best they can.

Going back to FRANKiE4, that relationship started with a gifted pair of shoes. It built to a couple of sponsored posts on the blog a couple of times a year, and then to an exclusive ambassadorship. It wasn’t an overnight thing.

Dahna Borg – Bright Red Marketing (26:37)

I love that. I think something a lot of people struggle with after working with an influencer is knowing whether it worked or not. Everyone assumes lots and lots of sales, which doesn’t always happen.

Nikki Parkinson – Styling You (27:00)

It doesn’t always happen, and sometimes it will. Sometimes the timing, the product, everything just lines up perfectly.

Dahna Borg – Bright Red Marketing (27:07)

It definitely does. But from your experience, what are the things people should be looking at to assess whether something has gone according to plan?

Nikki Parkinson – Styling You (27:23)

Depending on the size of the business, you might see a massive sales explosion following the post. Unless you see that initial spike, I think a code is the way to go if you can do it. You can definitely tell if there’s been a spike in sales, particularly if it’s the exact product the creator was wearing. You might not have an exact track on it, but you can see the influence. In the last few years though, there’s less impulse buying, so there’s a longer timeframe for that purchase to potentially happen. A code can also give you a bit of longevity, and the creator’s followers feel like they’ve got something. But you’ve got to build the discount cost into your marketing budget.

Dahna Borg – Bright Red Marketing (28:19)

Yeah, 100%. It’s definitely more of a long-term game than people expect. They look at the initial results and go, “You cost me this much and I made this much in sales.” And I’m like, it’s not quite that simple. You wouldn’t pull a TV commercial and call it a failure because it didn’t convert the second it went out. You’re building brand recognition, starting to build that relationship with people. There’s a lot more value in it than just the initial sales spike. But I’m also on the side where people look at the numbers, and that’s fair.

Nikki Parkinson – Styling You (28:50)

Which is fair. And honestly, I feel awful if I don’t get conversion. Sometimes people let me know, sometimes they don’t. But if you’re building a long-term relationship, that open and honest conversation about something not working is really valuable. Can we look at the timing? The product? How can we do it differently? Some brands will keep things close if it has gone well.

Dahna Borg – Bright Red Marketing (29:24)

Fair enough! That’s good to know, because I would have assumed you wouldn’t want to hear when things didn’t go well. So it’s helpful to know you’d welcome that feedback.

Nikki Parkinson – Styling You (29:45)

That’s also part of why affiliate works well for me. I can see I’ve converted, I can see that people responded. I think open communication is good. A brand doesn’t have to tell a creator exactly how much it sold, but even “we had such a great response, we’re so excited” goes a long way. And if you’re in a good relationship, have those conversations. The creator has to be open to that too, not take it as full criticism, but be open to: if you want to work with me again, what can we do differently?

And if it’s fashion or anything visual, the temptation is to throw as much product as possible into one 90-second video. But if you can narrow it down to one or two things and make a stronger case for why someone would buy them, that’s a much stronger message. You’ve really only got 90 seconds to play with, and that’s if people hang around for the 90 seconds. We know they don’t. So how can you narrow down that message?

Dahna Borg – Bright Red Marketing (30:42)

Yeah. With ads, realistically it’s the first two or three seconds. If they stick around for that, you’re good. So it’s about making sure that opening is interesting enough.

Nikki Parkinson – Styling You (30:50)

Yeah. You can have your campaign content covering the overall brand vibe, but what if there’s a hero product of the season? Your hero product might be something you’ve heavily invested in, units, numbers, everything, because you think it’s got strong selling power. You need someone to be able to tell everyone why they need this particular product. You can have other products in frame and people will ask about them, “where’s that t-shirt from?” which helps with engagement. You’re still maintaining the brand in the visuals, but you’ve got a clear focus on the product you’re actually trying to sell. And I get booked mostly for what I call talkies.

Dahna Borg – Bright Red Marketing (31:45)

Get everyone talking if you can, because behind-the-scenes content, campaign content, it’s all just video. Having someone talking through things, touching it, feeling it, telling you what they’re experiencing. Hands down, that’s money well spent.

What do you think this space looks like for the future?

Nikki Parkinson – Styling You (32:03)

We touched on it with AI. I feel like the power of creators who do talk, who aren’t perfect, they are going to continue to be sought after as part of the brand mix. I’m definitely not anti-AI. It’s got such good uses in so many areas, but at the crux of it, people buy from people. As long as creators continue to not look like AI versions of themselves, and I don’t know if I’m being naive, I feel like that is still going to be something brands want.

Dahna Borg – Bright Red Marketing (32:32)

Agreed. We can be naive together. If someone wants to work with you, what’s the best way for them to reach out? And I can personally attest to the success of Nikki’s campaigns. She’s worked with a number of our clients, everything has always been amazing, and she is spectacular to work with. But first, do you have a favourite business book or podcast?

Nikki Parkinson – Styling You (32:51)

By email. You’ll find it in my bio on Instagram. And thank you!

I haven’t done my research on this one, so I’m going to say a business podcast, though it’s a bit adjacent. When you’re a solo business owner, you sometimes just need a little gee-up, and for that I love Mel Robbins. I just get little gems that are really helpful. Often we get so caught up in the business stuff, but sometimes we just need a bit of life perspective to recalibrate. And it all comes down to confidence, doesn’t it? She has a lot of guests who speak to that, and I find it really helpful.

I also get my inspiration from real business stories, from people who’ve been in the thick of it. Emma Grede is another one I’ve been listening to lately. She’s an incredibly successful businesswoman who came from East London, and her book has just launched. I don’t have it yet, so maybe that’s a good one to add to the list.

Dahna Borg – Bright Red Marketing (34:17)

I’ll have to look that one up. And the last question, my favourite: what is the best piece of business advice you’ve ever received?

Nikki Parkinson – Styling You (34:22)

I’m going to bring it right back to the content space. Right at the start of blogging: just be you, because everyone else is taken. Imagine if I’d been trying to be someone else for the last 18 years. It’s exhausting enough as it is. Real people will find you because of who you are. You just have to be you. Not everyone’s going to like you, just like in the real world, but it’s so much easier. And in this increasingly AI world, that’s what’s going to set you apart.

Dahna Borg – Bright Red Marketing (34:56)

It was an absolute pleasure having you on the show. Thank you so much. You’ve shared some wonderful tips and some funny stories. An absolute pleasure.

Nikki Parkinson – Styling You (35:15)

Thanks so much, Dahna.

Dahna Borg – Bright Red Marketing (35:17)

Thank you for listening to the Bright Minds of eCommerce podcast. As always, you can find the show notes on our website at brightredmarketing.com.au. Just look for the podcast page. Thanks for listening.